Trying something stupid

[FlakRiot]

I'm just putting this here to create a log and to see if any of this info could be useful in someones shrimp keeping. Or possible alternative for starting the nitrogen cycle.

I am trying to cycle a 10G tank using only ghost shrimp (10 of them). I am aware that they tend to be very sensitive to ammonia spikes and whatnot but I needed something that wasn't going to be a fish and something faster than fishless cycling. I had to do a 30% water change due to a necessary change in substrate (don't ask). I considered it necessary, that is all you need to know.

My latest test read:
PH- 7.8
Ammonia - 1PPM
Nitrates - 0PPm
Nitrites - 0PPm

So far my shrimp have gone from completely clear to gaining some color. (red stripes and red claws) One of my females has already shown readiness to breed. I have literally done everything not to do with these shrimp and they still aren't dead. (They ate my snail.... ) I just need to keep them alive long enough to finish the cycle... Mind you these shrimp were sold as feeders so I am pretty sure they can survive harsher treatment than I have given them.

I am pretty sure that every website has lied to me about the hardiness of ghost shrimp.

Sorry for the rambling. Will keep updates posted hopefully my semi-fishless cycle will help someone.

If anyone has tried this before input would be nice otherwise, sit back, relax and lets see how long before this whole thing falls apart.

 

[TMaier]

Ok I read your post and can't resist asking about the substrate. Lol




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[plantnoob]

Ha ha, I think you got lucky. Although, if you are ok with really not having these, fishless cycling would have worked out faster for you. You have good control over the ammonia concentration, compared to having ghost shrimp where you have no control over how much bio load and the resulting ammonia levels. People go with fish in cycling because they can't wait to have fauna in their tank or they don't know about it.


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[Fresh2o]

Why do you consider this approach faster than a fishless cycle? Just curious.
If you want fast, seeded media is the way to go.
What is to become of the ghost shrimp when cycling has completed?
BTW, I don't see anything wrong with this approach. Inexpensive, readily available living ammonia source. It is interesting that they are living despite the conditions you stated. Some are so fragile (probably due to handling/transport) that they don't last long after being sold. Good luck with this.


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[Delapool]

Kind of surprised on the shrimp doing alright. What water conditioner are you using out of interest? Anything that detoxifies ammonia on the label?

 

[FlakRiot]

TMaier look at those pictures. That is why it was necessary. (The tank was a used tank from goodwill, I have never gone into a goodwill and not seen a fish tank there. There was a 100+ gallons tank there for $26 but 100+ gallons for one betta is a bit much)

Plantnoob and Fresh2o, I scoured the Internet and was under the impression that fish-in cycling would be faster due to them being able to introduce some of the good bacteria into the tank when... but now I just realized that they would likely die from not having enough of a food source at the beginning.... wow...I feel foolish, well at least I have a fun project on my hands, "keep the shrimp alive difficulty level:unknown?"

I never thought to ask my friend for some of her stuff to start my tank.. I really should have... but enough with the past! Mistakes were made now I must move forward!


What's interesting is my friend and I got shrimp from the exact same place at the exact same time and a few of hers have already died, but they also don't attack her snails and Bettas. But my shrimp won't die, ate my snail and continue to survive horrible conditions!

After the cycle I was going to give them to my friend to feed his fish if they don't get along with the betta when I get it. If they behave I will breed them and make live fish food for my betta. I was going to set up a 2.5g algae/Moss tank for the females to hatch in.

Delapool, I use dechlorinator. It doesn't say it treats ammonia... Yeah that ammonia in the tank is still toxic, probably... I should breed these little Jerks and see if anyone wants some ridiculously Hardy shrimp.



As far as today goes I'm doing a 5% water change because I feel like I should be somewhat nice to these little guys. Mostly to clean up some plant matter at the bottom from disturbing my banana plant yesterday during substrate change.

Pre-water change

pH - 7.8
Am ->.5ppm <1ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - <5ppm (darker than yesterday)

I will edit in the post water change later, need to go deliver some vanilla beans to a friend right now for some ice cream later.


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[plantnoob]

Flak, lessons learnt, all good. It would still speed up the process considerably and perhaps even save the shrimp if you have media from an established tank. My cycling was done in 3 days and my nitrites barely went up even though I was keeping ammonia steady at 2 ppm. I did get a good bit of media though.


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[TMaier]

That substrate is awesome if you are five. Or wish you were 5.

Lol


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[FlakRiot]

Unfortunately my friend is on vacation for the next 12 days. So I will have to wait unless you know a way to get ahold of some of the established tank media... I could ask my boss...but that is probably not going to happen. Since he is my boss. Technically those plants were in an established tank at my LFS. If that counts for anything.

TMaier
Yeah I jumped all over getting rid of it as soon as my SO said it was cool to spend the money

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[Delapool]

Hmm, may not detoxify ammonia. Generally they will say they do (if they do) for the marketing eg seachem prime, API ammo lock.

Ph result may tell us more.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

 

[FlakRiot]

Post (30% to bring down ammonia) water change,
pH 7.8
Am ~.5 ppm
Nite - 0ppm
Nate - 0ppm

Temp sits at 78. I should be OK! But now to find new water source...

I tested my water and it sits at a pH of 7.4 after dechlorinated but before added to aquarium

And ammonia registers at .25 ppm on preaquarium water.

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[Autumnsky]

You are getting .25 ammonia out of the tap?

The shrimp are hungry and that is possibly why they ate the snail or it was dying and they ate the snail. They are scavengers and eat meat along with algae and algae type stuff.

Ammonia builds an then nitrites - shrimp will probably die during the cycle.

Ghost shrimp babies usually need to brakish water to grow up in. Will usually die in FW. Grass shrimp or Neocaridina shrimp sold as feeder shrimp will be able to breed in FW.

With the red lines and red legs, I think you have Ghost shrimp though.

 

[FlakRiot]

Yes my test kit is saying that my ammonia levels out of tap are at .25ppm I'm not truly concerned or shocked that they ate my snail. Just surprised that they would do it right after I fed them.

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[Fresh2o]

I once was getting 1 ppm ammonia out of the tap. Filter was mature so it did not pose a problem. It was a temporary situation (well, almost a year).


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[FlakRiot]

Ok so current water parameters are great. I made a homemade feeder for my shrimp since this tank is too clean.

Oh yeah 2 of them are turning blue. Which is awesome. It's very faint right now but each day is more distinguishable as a deeper blue. Just thought that would be interesting to share.


Also is 11 shrimp and one betta too much for a ten gallon? I'm trying to be careful but would I possibly be able to also add one snail... if I can manage to keep it alive next time?

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[Fresh2o]

I pic of the homemade feeder and the shrimp changing color would be nice to see.
Bioload wise, that stock should be fine for a 10g.


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[FlakRiot]

Ok I just changed to led lighting. I think the blue coloring was brought about by the fluorescent bulbs.

But it's a tiny dish made from the bottom of a soda bottle with boba straws attatched. I cut slits for the shrimp to be able to pull the food through. After they are done with the pellets I clean out and add flakes because I have two that won't eat pellets. But will nom on all of the flakes.

Also sorry for the delayed reply, I got my dog fixed removed a duclaw and had his hernia fixed yesterday. So I was more focused on that yesterday.

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[FlakRiot]

Odd.

Ammonia ~.5
pH ~ 7.8
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm

Is this normal during cycling to have you ammonia and you nitrates up but not your nitrites?

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[TMaier]

Odd.

Ammonia ~.5
pH ~ 7.8
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm

Is this normal during cycling to have you ammonia and you nitrates up but not your nitrites?

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I believe so. Your bacteria aren't there to convert it.


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[plantnoob]

Not typical to have nitrates and no nitrites before your tank is fully cycled.

Nitrate measurements could be off if you didn't follow instructions properly. The API nitrate test bottle number 2 is a bit finicky.
How about your tap water? Reads zero nitrates?


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