"Used" tank, no fish, cloudy water

[Jonatheber]

I set up this 46 gallon used tank about 2 weeks ago. Before I started the cycle, I had vinegar in the bottom to kill off any mold, algae, etc in the gravel. I then did 50% water changes for a few days. Overnight, the water went from cold to the picture you see.... I waited a few days and started the cycle about 3 days ago. The water has been this color for about 5 days now. There are no fish in the tank and about 6 live plants (although it is impossible to see them).


I have a fluval 407 filter, and no air pump. Should I just wait it out? Drop the water level so the pump's exhaust hose sits above the water and aerates it a bit? Panic and do a water change?

Thanks!


PS No idea why the tank picture is rotated 90 degrees.

 

[AquariumExpert]

Never had this particular problem before but if I was in your situation I’d do 25% water changes every day or every other day until it looks a lot better, than the water should clear itself. Obviously this is my opinion though, so if someone who has had experience with this problem, please feel free to correct me. Otherwise good luck dude! Happy aquarium keeping!

 

[Splishspash]

I started up my tank a month or two ago, and had the same problem. I got the tank from my uncle, and it had a ton of mineral buildup (he had a saltwater tank) and I just used a razor blade and a sponge to get that off, though I did have to replace the silicone. but these are different situations, so I dunno. As for the cloudy water, my water was so cloudy I couldn't see to the other side. That was thanks to the substrate I'm using (eco-complete planted aquarium substrate) so maybe that's your problem? My water did clear up within about a week, and all i did was ran the filter, and I did a 40-50 percent water change.

 

[fishwonder]

Could be a lot of things. Try here for help with cloudy water.


[FONT=&quot]http://aquariumscience.org/index.php/6-2-3-bacterial-blooms/
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Jonatheber]

Ugh. The link didn't work.

 

[fishwonder]

Ugh. The link didn't work.

Verified works. Problem on your end, sorry.
https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/6-2-3-bacterial-blooms/

 

[Jonatheber]

Ok, so should I change anything

I got the link to work, and it boiled down to "deal with ugly but it will go away." It DID talk about filter media that might need improvement. I've got a Fluval 407 and put in the media that it came with. The Fluval DID have a bunch of foam at the bottom, but also had other layers of ceramics and carbon ... pillows?"

I'm doing a fishless cycle, so I'm not really worried about the water compsition right now.


Should I:


1) Get any extra filter material to supplement the stuff that came with the filter?
2) I've been seeding the thing with ammonia. Should I also add some food to rot away (since the article talks about needing to have brown gunk.")


Thanks!

 

[Aiken Drum]

I have a 406 filter (the older version of the 407), and the amount of media it came with was nowhere enough to support a tank full of fish. Each basket, fully filled, holds about 1kg of media and you should be looking for about 1kg per 100 litres (25g) of water. So you should be fully filling 2 baskets of your 407 for your 46g.

The output doesnt need to sit out of the water, as long as it agitates the surface it should be ok. Mine sits below the surface, enough that the splashing sound is barely audible.

You dont need to add ammonia and fish food. Dose ammonia to 4ppm, add a biological booster (eg Dr Tims One and Only or Seachem Stability) test daily for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. When your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose up to 2ppm. When after 24h your ammonia and nitrite is 0ppm and your nitrate us rising you are cycled. This is the fishless cycle guide people are usually directed to on here. Have a read through.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/tips-and-tricks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/

 

[fishwonder]

Your best media to use in any filter is 10/20 ppi foam or just plain plastic pot scrubbies. Just fill the canister with all pot scrubbies, as much as you can jam into all baskets and you are set. Won't need to clean for 4-6 months. As far as cycling I would stick with your ammonia dosing following whatever instructions you have.

 

[Jonatheber]

Your best media to use in any filter is 10/20 ppi foam or just plain plastic pot scrubbies. Just fill the canister with all pot scrubbies, as much as you can jam into all baskets and you are set. Won't need to clean for 4-6 months. As far as cycling I would stick with your ammonia dosing following whatever instructions you have.

I don't remove the carbon and ceramic things it came with, right? Add the scrubbie things to what is already there?

 

[fishwonder]

I don't remove the carbon and ceramic things it came with, right? Add the scrubbie things to what is already there?

You don't need any carbon. Carbon is only needed to remove any medications from the water or to remove any smells. Like the article says, you don't want any hard media in your filter as water just flows around it. You need to have water flow THROUGH your media to oxidize ammonia fastest.


Here is more info on media.


[FONT=&quot]http://aquariumscience.org/index.php/7-1-3-filter-media-test/ [/FONT]

 

[Aiken Drum]

He is suggesting to use foam or pot scrubbers instead of traditional ceramic ring media.

Either will work, if you go with traditional media you should be filling 2 of your baskets for your size tank. If you are getting more traditional media, then something porous like seachem matrix or biohome is better than ceramic media. My setup on my 406 in a 55g is bottom basket with sponges, 2 baskets with media (biohome in my case), top basket free for if i need to use chemical media (carbon). Foam or pot scrubbers will be a lot more cost effective than traditional media and many people do this with positive results.

I normally only use carbon if there is a specific reason. Do you have a need for the carbon? If not i wouldnt put it in the filter, its very expensive, needs replacing every 2 to 4 weeks.

 

[fishwonder]

If you are getting more traditional media, then something porous like seachem matrix or biohome is better than ceramic media.

Actually Matrix is not porous at all. Simple Pumice Stone and stone is not porous.


Good info here that has been proven. Even Seachem can't show any proof like this site can.

http://aquariumscience.org/index.php/7-2-12-matrix/


My canister has 3 baskets. Bottom, two 1" 10ppi foam, one 1/2" 20 ppi foam (all Poret foam), the next 2 baskets are all pot scrubbies.

 

[Aiken Drum]

And yet i can get a piece of matrix, touch it to water, and watch it absorb that water. Demonstrating 100% that it is porous.

 

[fishwonder]

And yet i can get a piece of matrix, touch it to water, and watch it absorb that water. Demonstrating 100% that it is porous.

Please read the article. It is enlightening...

 

[Aiken Drum]

I read it a few years ago. It was that precise article that lead me to the website. Much of it is demonstrably wrong, particularly when it comes to filter media.

For example, the filter set ups for some media types aren't in accordance with how the manufacturers advise setting up filters. Therefore the conclusions reached arent true. And im sorry, but when they are so obviously dishonest in one regard, then for me it throws everything else they say into doubt. You must have a very low standard of proof to take much of what that website as proof. Its evidence, thats all.

 

[fishwonder]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_perseverance


So far nobody has proved the author incorrect. YMMV.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I just did. Pumice demonstrably absorbs water. Matrix demonstrably absorbs water.

 

[fishwonder]

So does wood, so does carpet, so does paint brushes, so does dirty socks. But you most likely won't put those in your filter. I don't want a fight here. I too fell for the hype years ago with Matrix. Had 5+ liters in my canister and HOB for a year. I still had ammonia spikes when cleaned and certainly had Nitrates as usual. Tested it for over a year and came to the same conclusion as everyone else that it was just media and bacteria adheres to the outside and never really clear water. Use enough of it, it works for ammonia. Switching to foam and pot scrubbies at the same exact time, never any cloudy water at all now. Ammonia never after light rinsing of the media very 4-6 months.

 

[Aiken Drum]

But the statement that pumice is non porous is wrong.

I will accept your filter media works, it is backed up by many, many, people. In the same way, many, many, people use matrix, and that works too. And if you found one way improved your set up than another thats great. I have no problem with you saying what works for you, people should be given options and they should decide for themselves. But there should be some acceptance that your way isnt the only way.

I dont really have a dog in the fight, as i dont use matrix. I dont believe all the hype about it or even all the hype of my own media of choice (biohome). But, it does work, for many, many people. I even get very low nitrates as advertised, it took about 18 months to happen, which is right in line with biohomes timeline. I have no way of knowing if its actually because of the media or the plants, or some other factor, so i would never claim it as proof, but i did at least set up my filter in line with advice from the manufacturer, which is more than can be said for the testing on that website.