Waiting for cycling and stocking

[Meave]

Well I'm into my 4th week of cycling and the wait is killing me!!!

My ammonia JUST started to get below the 4ppm rating and I added more, here are my readings as of now:

Ammonia 2-4 ppm more on the 4 side
NitrIte: off the chart, and has been for about 10 days now
NitrAte: Just hit 5ppm
PH:7.8

I think I'm getting there with the ammonia starting to decrease, at least I hope so!

So my stocking question is as follow, below is what I have:

60 Gallon tank
2 Marineland 200B Penguin Filters
1 Top Fin 300w heater

My question is I plan have a cichlid tank and I want to get my fish from Bluegrass Aquatics and according to their site, they recommend 20 to 30 fish. That seems a lot to me and I want to make sure i don't overcrowd the tank. Now I know you are supposed to overcrowd a little bit in cichlid tanks, but is that over doing it?

I have no problems doing PWC every week, so that's not a problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

BTW this is my tank as it stands now waiting for the cycle:

[eco23]

A couple things seem odd with your cycle...the ammonia just now started dropping, but the no2 has been through the roof for 10 days? There's a link in my signature you can check out and see if anything seems off to you.

As for Cichlids, there's actually a section of the site dedicated to them, and we have some members who hang out there and have unbelievable knowledge. If a member named HUKIT responds to you...consider his answer the truth. I'm sure you can get some good advice here...but posting a stocking question there might get you some fantastic info as well.

I couldn't see your picture on my iPad...but I'm sure it looks nice

[librarygirl]

Have you done any water changes? If nitrite has been that high for over a week perhaps a water change to get the nitrite down to readable levels on the test kit would help. It certainly wouldn't hurt at least. Just remember to redose ammonia again afterwards.

Also, just to double-check, what brand of ammonia are you using?

[sobersteve323]

I've actually been experiencing the same thing with my fishless cycle. At the 8 day mark I had nitrItes and on day 9 nitrAtes. But today is the 3 week mark and my nitrItes continue to climb steadily and my ammonia hasn't dropped at all. A week ago I did a 50% PWC and redosed ammo back up but still no drop in it. I am beginning to think that I'm misreading the test results and maybe dosing more ammo than 4ppm and that's why it doesn't look like it's converting. Those darn greens all look alike to me!

BTW I'm using Eco's guide, too.

[eco23]

There's something funny going on which you guys must both have in common. Is there a particular substrate like eco-complete you are using, any bacteria in a bottle products, same brand of ammonia, same test kit, etc...?

The truth is that unless there is some other variable you have in common...this would defy the laws of science. The basic process in nature (and your aquarium) is that ammonia is consumed by the first type of bacteria (Nitrobacter), and that bacteria excretes nitrItes. The second type of bacteria (Nitrosomonas) consumes the nitrIte and excretes nitrAtes. So, without something consuming the ammonia...there can be no nitrItes, and obviously there can be no nitrAtes unless something is consuming the no2.

I think you guys should definitely chat a bit and find out what you have in common. I've seen some bacteria supplements do weird things, and we've also got a funny situation with a type of substrate causing odd readings. But as far as the natural nitrogen cycle in an aquarium...this is a borderline impossibility unless there is an outside variable IMO.

[sobersteve323]

Originally Posted by eco23

There's something funny going on which you guys must both have in common. Is there a particular substrate like eco-complete you are using, any bacteria in a bottle products, same brand of ammonia, same test kit, etc...?

The truth is that unless there is some other variable you have in common...this would defy the laws of science. The basic process in nature (and your aquarium) is that ammonia is consumed by the first type of bacteria (Nitrobacter), and that bacteria excretes nitrItes. The second type of bacteria (Nitrosomonas) consumes the nitrIte and excretes nitrAtes. So, without something consuming the ammonia...there can be no nitrItes, and obviously there can be no nitrAtes unless something is consuming the no2.

I think you guys should definitely chat a bit and find out what you have in common. I've seen some bacteria supplements do weird things, and we've also got a funny situation with a type of substrate causing odd readings. But as far as the natural nitrogen cycle in an aquarium...this is a borderline impossibility unless there is an outside variable IMO.

I agree that it doesn't make sense. That's why I was going with the user error approach and assuming I was just overdosing ammonia and misreading the shades of green

As for what's in the tank; I only have pool filter sand, decorations and Ace brand ammonia filled water that's been dechlorinated with prime.

[Meave]

Ok update!

Ammonia went from 4ppm last night to 0 today
NitrItes are still off the chart
NitrAtes are around the 40-80ppm mark

So I added more ammonia to around the 2-4 mark again. So I'm just waiting for the nitRites to disappear right?

Oh and I use sand, Ace ammonia, and prime, same as sobersteve323

[eco23]

Originally Posted by Meave

Ok update!

Ammonia went from 4ppm last night to 0 today
NitrItes are still off the chart
NitrAtes are around the 40-80ppm mark

So I added more ammonia to around the 2-4 mark again. So I'm just waiting for the nitRites to disappear right?

Basically. I'd give it a couple more days and do a massive pwc to reduce the no2 down to .5-1. I'm wondering if it was a testing error from before...but as long as things seem on track, we can all be happy . Check out the guide in my signature if you haven't seen it.

[jeffp]

Originally Posted by eco23

There's something funny going on which you guys must both have in common. Is there a particular substrate like eco-complete you are using, any bacteria in a bottle products, same brand of ammonia, same test kit, etc...?

The truth is that unless there is some other variable you have in common...this would defy the laws of science. The basic process in nature (and your aquarium) is that ammonia is consumed by the first type of bacteria (Nitrobacter), and that bacteria excretes nitrItes. The second type of bacteria (Nitrosomonas) consumes the nitrIte and excretes nitrAtes. So, without something consuming the ammonia...there can be no nitrItes, and obviously there can be no nitrAtes unless something is consuming the no2.

I think you guys should definitely chat a bit and find out what you have in common. I've seen some bacteria supplements do weird things, and we've also got a funny situation with a type of substrate causing odd readings. But as far as the natural nitrogen cycle in an aquarium...this is a borderline impossibility unless there is an outside variable IMO.

if i'm not mistaken, it's notrosomonas that converts ammonia into nitrites, and nitrospira that converts nitries into nitrates, which is why biospira/tetra safestart/dr tim's one and only seems to be the only ones that work, since they seem to be the only bacteria in a bottle that has nitrospira, not the wrong bacteria nitrobacter.

[eco23]

Originally Posted by jeffp

if i'm not mistaken, it's notrosomonas that converts ammonia into nitrites, and nitrospira that converts nitries into nitrates, which is why biospira/tetra safestart/dr tim's one and only seems to be the only ones that work, since they seem to be the only bacteria in a bottle that has nitrospira, not the wrong bacteria nitrobacter.

There's actually some debate on the Nitrobacter vs Nitrospira discussion. I can link some PDF's later when I'm at my PC. From what I remember, both types are available for the nitrogen cycle in home aquaria...but the Nitrospira is not as successful in ammonia rich conditions. So basically it is commonly outcompeted by the Nitrobacter in aquariums when the tank is first cycling. I'll have to brush up on my knowledge...but the last article I read had that info.

[jetajockey]

I'd look into the unreliability of color-shade testing before even throwing around what is possible or impossible scientifically. Color shade testing is fairly reliable but it's far from exacting for multiple reasons, so it really shouldn't be treated with the rigidity that it often is.


Anyhoo, a good read on nitrifying bacteria
for nitrite => nitrate nitrifiers
http://www.timhovanec.com/Publicatio...es/page8_2.pdf

for ammonia => nitrite nitrifiers
http://www.timhovanec.com/Publicatio...es/page8_1.pdf