Water Changes During Fish In Cycle?

[molliwopp]

It is also my preference. I prefer to do frequent water changes and let nature take its course rather than do fishless cycling. Just because I chose to cycle my tank using an "old school" method doesn't make it any less effective.

I dont mean to go on but it is less effective and why cant effectiveness and fairness be linked in some sort of way. If i had my way fishin cycling would be eliminated from the face of fish keeping period but unfortunately i dont. All we seem to do is take for ourselves and need to start giving back when we can. And we can with such a task as simple as fishless cycling to prevent suffering, its certainly no inconvenience and only positive things come from it. Why would i listen to people saying it can be done fairly, how can it? If ammonia has the power to KILL in small amounts how dreadful an experience must it be at any level. And the biggest point is that its completely avoidable.

 

[Mebbid]

As long as the aquarist is diligent about keeping parameters within acceptable levels there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a fish in cycle. In fact, my last 3 tanks were cycled fish in without a single fatality or high ammonia level.

I don't agree with buying fish just to do a cycle and then return them after it's done. However that's apparently not what was done here.

 

[molliwopp]

As long as the aquarist is diligent about keeping parameters within acceptable levels there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a fish in cycle. In fact, my last 3 tanks were cycled fish in without a single fatality or high ammonia level.

I don't agree with buying fish just to do a cycle and then return them after it's done. However that's apparently not what was done here.

No it cant, how is exposing anything living to a substance that can cause the worst outcome, death. Just because you got hit by a car and didnt die in hospital..? Well you should know or have been taught better. Regardless of fatalities theres a better way staring right at you.

 

[GreenLily]

I think we should just agree to disagree here. I have done both types of cycles and found that both are safe and that you can use whichever you prefer. Pestering others about what you believe to be the right way isn't going to sway people to do them your way. You're just going to upset and irritate people because instead of being helpful, it appears as if you're just TRYING to guilt-trip and criticize other people's knowledge. Regardless of your belief, it is perfectly fine to cycle the tank using whichever method. The rest is up to preferences and PERSONAL opinions.

 

[Delapool]

Perhaps this would be for a new thread as a topic in its own right. The OP is in a fish in cycle already but I think the topic is worthwhile.

 

[GreenLily]

As to where to find filter floss, you can buy the poly-fill pillow stuffing at a craft store and get for a nice price for a bunch! Just be sure it doesn't have any chemicals in it that make it flame retardant or waterproof, etc. Plain is the best.

 

[The Trooper]

It is also my preference. I prefer to do frequent water changes and let nature take its course rather than do fishless cycling. Just because I chose to cycle my tank using an "old school" method doesn't make it any less effective.

I have just fishless cycled my tank in just over 3 weeks, your comment about letting nature take it's course made me laugh, because it does not apply, having fish in a tank is no natural, nor is the high levels of ammonia.

Good luck moving forward

 

[HN1]

I think everyone has made good points. The fact of the matter is that fish in cycling is the most applied method within the hobby. Period. It can be done very safely & responsibly. We have close to 70 tanks running now and start a new one regularly. Am I going to fishless cycle each one? Heck no! Seeded media, diligence, and clean water are all it takes.

I've also fishless cycled many tanks. SW & FW. To have one method that you swear by and defend so vehemently tends to show your lack of depth of knowledge IMO.

 

[HN1]

Perhaps this would be for a new thread as a topic in its own right. The OP is in a fish in cycle already but I think the topic is worthwhile.

Check out the articles section. We have several for both fishless and fish in cycling.

 

[missriss126]

Thanks for all the extra comments. If I had known about fishless cycling before, I might have gone that route. Might.

As others have said, both methods work.

Back on topic:
I will be performing another water test at around 530pm EST when I get back from work. So that will be about 22 hours after I performed the water change yesterday.


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[Delapool]

Check out the articles section. We have several for both fishless and fish in cycling.

Thanks for the reply. I'll have a look but I don't think there is a discussion on it past basic pros and cons? Mostly I've seen how to do it but only light coverage on should we be doing it?

 

[molliwopp]

To have one method that you swear by and defend so vehemently tends to show your lack of depth of knowledge IMO.

Last comment on the subject but to say its lack of knoledge rather than selfless passion is rather short sited. Because i have the respect and the time to fishless cycle regardless is patience or respect and nothing else. People grow and are raised differently and just maybe ive been raised with a higher state of equality here in Healing a little village of England. Keeping 70 tanks isnt the same of having 3 or 4 tanks that you slave to do right by where you care for everyfish. Maybe with 70 tanks youve lost a tiny bit of your caring side on the way.

 

[HN1]

Last comment on the subject but to say its lack of knoledge rather than selfless passion is rather short sited. Because i have the respect and the time to fishless cycle regardless is patience or respect and nothing else. People grow and are raised differently and just maybe ive been raised with a higher state of equality here in Healing a little village of England. Keeping 70 tanks isnt the same of having 3 or 4 tanks that you slave to do right by where you care for everyfish. Maybe with 70 tanks youve lost a tiny bit of your caring side on the way.

You make assumptions. Far too many.

Tell me, how is a fish in cycle (properly applied) any less caring than a fish in that actually has more potential to go awry?

Selfless passion? lol To each their own. To preach one method over another without the knowledge of both is just that. Selfish preaching.

I am done posting in this thread because it does the OP no good. If you would like to continue debate or cast any more accusations my way, I invite you to PM me.

 

[missriss126]

I have been doing 25% water changes daily for the past several days and started noticing some Nitrites! So excited to have my tank cycled soon.

When using a gravel vac, what is the proper technique to clean the gravel? Most how to videos I have seen day just to stick it straight in the gravel and then lift straight out. This has been working for me so far but it is difficult to reach the back of the tank without completely taking off the hood.

I have a plastic good right now, but I am looking into switching to a glass canopy instead.


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[Old Scales]

I did a fish in cycle exactly one year ago in my new 29g. I used 6 serpae tetras. I STILL HAVE THOSE 6 and they are just as ruby red and healthy as they can be. I responsibly monitored my parameters and was cycled in four weeks. In 50 years of fish keeping I have never done a no-fish cycle and can't remember losing a fish because of it. I totally agree with Mebbid on this one. Missriss, you are monitoring your cycle well and doing fine. Good job. Good luck, OS.

 

[flitabout]

I have done cycles both ways and had success and healthy live fish at the end of both. I also find that I have a severe lack of patience looking at an empty tank. I only buy fish that I am intending to keep. I have also had to re-home after a bad purchase after finding out an Oscar won't fit in a 55 in the long term. It devastated me so much having to rehome him that I got out of fish for over 10 years.
If it helps I just did a fish in cycle over the summer and I still have all of those fish. I also just finished a fishless today using filter material in a week. Regardless of the way you choose to do your cycle know that it can be done safely. Of course fish in is way more work. But I was taught to fish in and honestly that is my preference. I can change 50% of my water daily.

 

[BBradbury]

Tank Cycling

I love these kinds of debates. The water keeping hobby is interesting, because there are any number of ways to succeed. I cycled my first "serious" 30 G tank with 8 feeder female Guppies. I wanted fish in the tank right away and got fry at the end of the cycle. The cycle worked fine. I added a little aquarium salt to help the fish cope with the less than perfect water conditions, the higher nitrogen levels and changed 25 percent of the water when I got a positive test for ammonia or nitrite. I always tested daily. I added the floating Anacharis plant that helped filter the tank water and the fish were fine. The tank was cycled in roughly a month.

Pretty simple.

B

 

[Fishperson]

I agree with BBradbury that these debates are really awesome!

As far as the Molliwopp vs. HN1 argument goes I think it is important to remember, that although fishless cycling is safer, fish in is safe as well, if done properly. So in that respect, Molliwopp, fish in is not bad for fish at all, if done correctly. But it is certainly difficult to do it perfectly right.

 

[molliwopp]

I agree with BBradbury that these debates are really awesome!

As far as the Molliwopp vs. HN1 argument goes I think it is important to remember, that although fishless cycling is safer, fish in is safe as well, if done properly. So in that respect, Molliwopp, fish in is not bad for fish at all, if done correctly. But it is certainly difficult to do it perfectly right.

Well i have to disagree but i dont want to spark another debate but i do it fishless for the benifit of my fish and nothing else.Ok, im going to trying and get my message across and why i think fishin cycles should be last line.
When beginners ask about cycling i will only ever recommend fishless. Seriously, i cant count the amount of threads ive read in my time about fish deaths with novice keepers during fishin cycling.

I just view fishin as selfish with lack of real empathy for the fish. My fish are my children and im their man God, do i care too much? No, probably not enough. But put yourself in this situation for a second..
You move house and the house youre moving to has to have insecticide gas injection for a month to clear bug or parasite infestation. Given the choice, would you move in before or after its done? It equates to the same thing, were in complete control of our fishes lives, they too would rather return after a month after the cycling is complete.

You say 'its not bad for fish at all' but it is bad, its horrible horrible stuff even in low amounts which would certainly make them feel like pooo. Also theres a little imbalance in chemistry during a cycle which could also cause stress.

I choose to do it this way because its the right thing to do.
The fact remains, fishin cycle is a selfish method because it only benifits one side which is basically so impatient people can put fish into a tank straight away.

Going back to what i said about the amount of fish that die during a fishin cycle. If fishless was the recommended standard millions of fish and more importantly lives could have been saved.

 

[HN1]

When beginners ask about cycling i will only ever recommend fishless. Seriously, i cant count the amount of threads ive read in my time about fish deaths with novice keepers during fishin cycling.

But put yourself in this situation for a second..
You move house and the house youre moving to has to have insecticide gas injection for a month to clear bug or parasite infestation. Given the choice, would you move in before or after its done? It equates to the same thing, were in complete control of our fishes lives, they too would rather return after a month after the cycling is complete.

You say 'its not bad for fish at all' but it is bad, its horrible horrible stuff even in low amounts which would certainly make them feel like pooo. Also theres a little imbalance in chemistry during a cycle which could also cause stress.

I choose to do it this way because its the right thing to do.
The fact remains, fishin cycle is a selfish method because it only benifits one side which is basically so impatient people can put fish into a tank straight away.

Going back to what i said about the amount of fish that die during a fishin cycle. If fishless was the recommended standard millions of fish and more importantly lives could have been saved.

Ok, well here we go with assumptions and false science. First of all, I agree with you. I also only recommend fish in cycling to those experienced and knowledgable enough to do it correctly. It really isn't that difficult (or unsafe).

Secondly, You truly have no idea how many of the same cycling threads that I have read and participated in. The primary issue with those threads is almost always ignorance of the cycle rather than a failed attempt at an actual approach to it. The sad truth is that the vast majority of "fish keepers" know little to nothing of the cycle and never find the right advice instead choosing (understandably) to follow the advice of inexperienced shop employees paid minimum wage or close.

You cannot equate nitrogen byproducts in water with pesticides in the air. Nor is anthropomorphism very accurate (pretty much ever). We see this in countless threads when the topic of hybridization comes up. Nor do you know how fish "feel". There simply is no science there.

You always do fishless because it is the right thing FOR YOU. To claim another method is wrong simply because you do not subscribe to it or understand the requirements well enough to feel confident about it reads as grossly misplaced arrogance. I don't believe it is, but that's how it reads.

At the end of the day, the choices we make for the animals in our care are absolutely important and personal. One of the wonderful things about this hobby is the various methods that can create success. That is what keeps me reading on this site and others and why I make every fish related meeting or conference possible.

Happy fishkeeping.