4 turbo snails... died...

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CubicGgW

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Messages
34
Location
Michigan
Hi,
Recently, my tank just started to have alge boom or diatom boom, i'm not sure what exactly they are, but they look sort like spiderweb, with brownish color. and i'm not sure if it was that reason or some other mysterious reason, my snails started to die, 4 has already fell victim..>_<
and my two false clown fish, they started to have couple black spot at on their body, closer to their fin thats close to their gill, i really wonder what are those? or its just that i worry to much? (they actually had those black spot for probably a week or 2 now)
i hope they'll be aiight~ @@
TIA
chia
ps. for some reason, blue leg hermit seems can't live in peace with red scarlet hermit. my 10 blue leg hermit crabs seem to be missing half of them, while my 5 red scarlet hermits are molting and growing~ @___@ or is it just that, the blue legs like to hide??
 
Could you provide a little more info about the tank itself and the water parameters? By the sounds of it, your tank is reasonabley new (?) and may still have poisonous levels (NH3/NO2/NO3) that will affect the health of the snails. You may also have a few hermits wearing "new homes"?

CubicGgW said:
(they actually had those black spot for probably a week or 2 now)
The "black spots" could be turbellarian worm. Has the problem become progressively worse of is it staying the same and do they seem to move?

Cheers
Steve
 
the water parameters are very nice,
NH3 and NO2 are both 0ppm,
theres about 5~8ppm for NO3.
SG is about 1.0285,
ph is 8.2

the black spot on the fish didnt really grow like crazy, but i think they sort of disappeared. or not as visible as before now @__@

i also included a photo of those brownish things @_@

tia
chia
 
CubicGgW said:
SG is about 1.0285,
That is a little high. Depending on temp you would be better in the 1.025-1.026 range. This may be the cause, I am not sure. How where they acclimated?

the black spot on the fish didnt really grow like crazy, but i think they sort of disappeared. or not as visible as before now @__@
Keep an eye on it. Could simpley be an anomoly or possibley something else. If it returns, you should set up a >>quarantine<< and treat with >>hyposalinity<< "if" you are able to dermine it was actually turbellarians.

i also included a photo of those brownish things @_@
I honestly can't tell. The black sand makes it a little "dull" in contrast. If I had to guess, I would say it's cyano...

Cheers
Steve
 
I agree with Steve. The picture is a little hard to discern, but I would agree that it appears to be cyano. As far as your snails, turbos have a difficult time "righting" themselves if they fall on their backs. I thought other than acclimation problems or the high SG, this may have led to their demise. The hermits you can purchase empty shells for them, that way as they grow, they have a new home to move into. Otherwise, they may fight for the other's shell.

Hope this helps!
 
thanks a lot! but they have been in the tank for 2 months now and they had been very active and healthy till the boom of "cyano", and they started to die in the past week :cry: i suspect that cyano boom have something to do with the water that i tap off daily... i get the distilled water from local grocery(meijer). i have also been considering obtaining a R/O unit as well as a protein skimmer to keep the water quality.
i'll also quickly but gradualy adjust the SG level back to 1.026

what are cyanos? appearantly, they aint really good to the tank.. or are they good?
i'm trying to look for some info about cyano on the net now too^^
 
Steve, what do you think about the possibility of it not being cyano and being dinoflagellets?
CubicGgW, does the brown seem to go away when lights are out and get worse throughout the day while the lights are on? Just a thought.

As far as using distilled water, it isn't as good as RO/DI. The distilling process can leave some unwanted materials in the water.
 
NaH2O said:
Steve, what do you think about the possibility of it not being cyano and being dinoflagellets?
Could easily be dinoflagellates. They appear as red, golden, brown and green. When they reach sufficient number, the bloom can become toxic to crustaceans and gastropods.

CubicGgW, does the brown seem to go away when lights are out and get worse throughout the day while the lights are on? Just a thought.
I would wait on this answer before concluding anything as yet.

CubicGgW said:
i get the distilled water from local grocery(meijer).
I would also suggest having this tested for copper. Distillation can sometimes be done with copper tubing.

Cheers
Steve
 
i have done a little experiment with those brownish thing, they seem not to grow much when the lights are off.
i've already read a little about dinoflagellates, since they are photosynthesis, and the brownish thing arent growing too much at night, it could be the one... but if thats the source, how would i go about removing them??
thank you^^
chia
 
I'm starting to write up an article on this so don't worry about the length of this post. Everyone here feel free to edit the initial rough draft of this. I value your advice. I'm not convinced you have dinoflagellates but thought I would throw this out for you to look at.

Many times I have seen people worried about a film of cyanobacteria (slime algae). The helpful people post all of the proper questions to help a reefer solve their problem. I.E.---How old are your bulbs?, Do you use RO/DI water?, What are your nitrate and phosphate levels?, When was the last time you did a water change?, Do you have good flow in your tank?, Did your tank just finish cycling?.....

Then a week later, the same person will come back on and tell everyone that they did what they were told, and the slime algae still exists. This will start a round of questions like.....What test kits are you using?, When was the last time your RO/DI membrane and resins were replaced, etc., etc. They are told to do another waterchange and it will resolve itself---but it doesn't.

IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND IT TALKS LIKE A DUCK, IT IS ......

Usually a duck---but not always. Sometimes we think we are dealing with cyanobacteria and we are not. Sometimes we are dealing with dinoflagellates. Almost all of us with reeftanks, have dinoflagellates in our tank----Zooxanthellae. This symbiotic dinoflagellate is present in many of our corals. They are from the Kingdom of Protista and the Division of Dinoflagellata. This group possesses two flagella which move them through the water. They have additional pigments in addition to chlorophyll---usually brown or red. Some of them are bioluminescent. I'm sure many of you have heard of bays that glow when the water is disturbed. If you like to experiment, check out this link (BUT DO NOT PUT THIS IN YOUR REEF TANK---ONLY A SPECIALLY SET UP NANO). http://www.lifesci.ucsb.edu/~biolum/organism/dinohome.html The brown dinoflagellates are present in many of our corals and that is the reason there are so many brown corals. The red dinoflagellates are sometimes known as the Red Tide. I'm sure most of you have read at one time or another about the Red Tide destroying a reef. You do not want this in your tank. Not only do dinoflagellates exist in many corals, they also exist in many Tridacna Clams, anemones, and some sponges. They are never a problem if they are existing in a symbiotic relationship. However, they are a HUGE problem if they are existing in a free-living form.

LUCKILY FREE-LIVING DINOFLAGELLATES ARE RARE IN REEF AQUARIA

Dinoflagellates (hereafter called Snot Algae or Dino's) are one of the meanest things you have ever met in your life. (I unfortunately have had first hand experience). You will follow all of the advice and the problem will keep getting worse and not better. On top of that, some Dino's are toxic (think red tide). If you have a poisonous type, any snail, conch, fish, worm, etc. that eats the bad Dino's will eventually die while you are doing everything people are telling you to do. Then your clean up crew (bristle worms, crabs, etc.) will arrive for clean up duty and will die as a result of absorbing the toxins in the animals they are trying to eradicate. This provides more nutrients for the Dino's to grow.

They have one interesting characteristic. You will follow everyones advice and go to bed. Then you will wake up in the morning thrilled that the advice worked. It looks pretty darn good---almost everything thing is gone. You go to work---come home 9 hours later and the snot algae is even bigger than yesterday.

If nothing is working, you might have Snot Algae. This algae is different. It is usually brown, has ton's of oxygen bubbles in it, dissapears to a great deal (or entirely) overnight. (Remember it is photosythenetic---that's how it helps your corals grow). I'm a guy and don't have any problems with talking about Snot and after a week or so of a Dino outbreak, you will know why it is called snot Algae. Same grossness---Same consistency.

HOW DID YOU GET IT AND WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT IT?

First off, the mere presence of bubbles does not mean it is Dino's or snot algae----cyanobacteria can trap bubbles temporarily that are trying to exit the sandbed. As a result, some bubbles can be present with it too. Luckily, most of the time, it is cyanobacteria. Dino's are usually caused by two things.....Bleaching of corals due to extreme temperatures or a major swing in tank chemistry.

Even if you have non-toxic Dino's, they are still dangerous---precautions must be taken. They have the ability to take up a lot of oxygen. Your fish can "drown" due to the lack of dissoved oxygen not to mention the Ph impact.

Again, I want to remind you that this is rare. Usually it is cyanobacteria. However, if you follow a lot of advice and nothing improves, it might be snot algae.

Most of the treatments for cyanobacteria applies to Dino's. However, Dino's require a little more. The Ph must be bumped up substantially during the day (I went to 8.5) and the lighting must decrease substantially.

Here are a couple of links
http://bellnetweb.brc.tamus.edu/dinoflag.htm
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_crail.html
> Dino's<
 
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