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Old 08-18-2012, 07:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonedogz
Hey Mikey, Your method may have worked for some reason or another but 9 times out of 10 it won't. We don't always have had to have tried something to know it works or doesn't work, there are tons of experts who will tell you that hypo or copper are the only sure fire methods that work. You may not agree with them but I find that Carey and Schism are pretty knowledgable here on this forum so give a little credence to what they say.
How exactly does anyone ignore when a product performs as advertised when directions are followed and considered a fluke?

If you don't want to try it, don't. But don't question my first hand experience in favor of biased opinions of others who have NO experience with the product in question. I'm clearly saying that I used it and it worked. Please don't come back at me with "I don't know why, but it must not have actually worked". ESPECIALLY if you have no relevant & first hand experience.

Sure, maybe you tried something else that failed, maybe you used a product outside its recommended usage, maybe you failed to follow directions. And don't forget, plenty of fish die during copper & hypo as well. Its a sick fish.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #22
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Then why don't commercial fish farms use it to treat fish ?
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:39 PM   #23
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First off, I would assume cost would be a major factor. Logistics would be another.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:17 PM   #24
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early on

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Originally Posted by MikeYQM View Post
I used Proto Marin Coral as an in tank treatment for ich on my Blue Hippo. I have not seen it come back in months. Say what you will but I think the stuff worked.

I caught it early on, fish was still active & feeding. For a more advanced case, I would look at hypo salinity. But in terms of clearing the tank of the parasite, it seemed to work well. Maybe not 100% effective but enough to rid all symptoms going on 3 months now.
"I caught it early on" this is the most effective way to beat ICH. I have used Garlic Extreme to quell the dreaded ICH by catching it when the fist spots appeared. If I see any fish flash I add it to the food. If I see any spots I add it to the food and directly to the tank per the instructions.

Also IMO when you quarantine a fish it just adds to the fish's stress making it more susceptible to any ailment. If you think about how many times a fish's environment has changed from being caught in the wild to your ending up in your tank it's amazing that so many make it. I say getting it into a stable system could only help.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:03 PM   #25
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"I caught it early on" this is the most effective way to beat ICH. I have used Garlic Extreme to quell the dreaded ICH by catching it when the fist spots appeared. If I see any fish flash I add it to the food. If I see any spots I add it to the food and directly to the tank per the instructions.

Also IMO when you quarantine a fish it just adds to the fish's stress making it more susceptible to any ailment. If you think about how many times a fish's environment has changed from being caught in the wild to your ending up in your tank it's amazing that so many make it. I say getting it into a stable system could only help.
so what are you saying don't qt fish
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:05 AM   #26
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I'm not going to disagree that a fish may be stressed when moving around however not using a QT protocol is playing Russian roulette. I guess the real question is are you willing to take the risk? If you are willing to risk it then I suppose you don't have to QT. I lost hundreds of dollars worth of fish a few years back in my larger aquarium by bringing in one fish and not using QT. Some fish stores claim to QT all of their livestock however, for how long?
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:09 AM   #27
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In addition, if you QT for parasites and your fish gets sick, you can rule that issue out.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:38 AM   #28
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Wow that's the worst advice I've ever herd don't qt your fish ...I think this thread is dead there realy is info being passed along that is just plain false and untrue.. garlic may have boosted your fishes immune system to fight it off but your tank still has ick...I think I'm beating a dead horse hear when I say its a parasite garlic does not kill the parasite but its whatever I'm not commenting no more on this tread
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:54 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezy33

Also IMO when you quarantine a fish it just adds to the fish's stress making it more susceptible to any ailment. If you think about how many times a fish's environment has changed from being caught in the wild to your ending up in your tank it's amazing that so many make it. I say getting it into a stable system could only help.
I do understand this is you opinion, however this is totally a wrong approach. To say quarantine adds to stress is absolutely false. The entire purpose of QT is to provide a stress free environment ie no or few fish, great water. A fish cannot get a parasite from being QT'd, if it has the parasite it will show its presence in the time of the 4 week QT. Often fish will appear ickless, the parasite often hides in the fishes gills where you will not see it. A quarantine tank is a lot more stress free than your display.

QT is done by fish stores, wholesalers, zoo's, farms, hobbyist, you name it. The only way to ensure new fish does not introduce a parasite into a system is to properly QT. You risk all you fish every time you dont.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:26 AM   #30
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Agreed, while it *may* increase overall stress of the fish in quarantine, it gives you the ability to ensure it is feeding and overall healthy. And any extra stress is short lived. Not to mention the huge factor of protecting ALL your other livestock from introduced disease or parasite.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:08 PM   #31
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ZacksFlowerhorn123 stated he didn't quarantine!

Schism you state "QT is done by fish stores, wholesalers, zoo's, farms, hobbyist, you name it. The only way to ensure new fish does not introduce a parasite into a system is to properly QT." How is it ICH is still a problem?

I'm not saying don't quarantine, it's your tank. I don't quarantine and with 3 tangs and no ICH out breaks in 4 years, maybe I'm just lucky. It was explained to me by a LFS owner that ICH is like the common cold. It's always around and it attacks when the immune system is compromised. IMO every animal has parasites and you would have to kill the host to rid it of all parasites.

When I buy a fish I always ask to see it eat, watch for a few minutes, look at the health of the tank mates and the overall heath of the entire store.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:02 PM   #32
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Ich is not always around. It's a safe assumption that it's being carried on most new additions (may or may not be there - but it's safer to assume it is). The life cycle of ich runs 4 cycles in 4-6 weeks then repeats. Only 1 in 4 stages are visible and once the cysts drop off, they hatch & spread through the tank.

The nice thing is that without a new introduction, ich will cease to propagate after about 11 months.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezy33
ZacksFlowerhorn123 stated he didn't quarantine!

Schism you state "QT is done by fish stores, wholesalers, zoo's, farms, hobbyist, you name it. The only way to ensure new fish does not introduce a parasite into a system is to properly QT." How is it ICH is still a problem?
Unfortunately ich is still around because of how fish stores etc usually QT. Usually it involved only about a 2 week quarantine treating with copper. This will kill off free floating ich and the cysts however it will not take care of infected fish entirely, and is why we see ich in fish stores and our tanks.

And unfortunately some do not QT at all.

Ich is the very simple to cure and deal with, however becuase of the time and effort many are more willing to place bets on miracle cures instead. Some get lucky and most are fooled into thinking they 'cured' it with said product. If the ich doesnt fine a host it wont be able to reproduce. There are ways to build immune system to prevent infection but they are not guarantees.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:26 PM   #34
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Welp the ich is gone.. I used blended garlic with some metronidazole and trace, as needed, and it worked perfectly. No sign of ich ever since... So yeah he fought it off and the metronidazole and trace worked.. Idk why everone says it doesnt work when it does. And i have a qt set up. I just didnt find the need to capture the tang and mess my whole tank up while stressing him.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:32 PM   #35
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Focus not trace. But yeah it worked perfectly. Take that non believers!! Garlic i great for the human body too. So it makes sence.. Ppl that dont believe need to open up and quit being snobby.. He was getting worse and worse. Then i added that stuff and he fought the ich off for 2 days tillbit wasnt there anymore. I kept dosing and feeding the garlic for the whole week. Hes been perfectly fine so far. Im not being ignorant but even fintastic uses this method.. (huge fish store the size of an FAO Shwartz, in charlotte SC. They know wat they are doing! So yeah.. If i would of quarantined he would of died. He was already really stressed. Thanks for all the comments everyone and i did learn a few things from some posts! thank you!!!
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:49 PM   #36
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Focus not trace. But yeah it worked perfectly. Take that non believers!! Garlic i great for the human body too. So it makes sence.. Ppl that dont believe need to open up and quit being snobby.. He was getting worse and worse. Then i added that stuff and he fought the ich off for 2 days tillbit wasnt there anymore. I kept dosing and feeding the garlic for the whole week. Hes been perfectly fine so far. Im not being ignorant but even fintastic uses this method.. (huge fish store the size of an FAO Shwartz, in charlotte SC. They know wat they are doing! So yeah.. If i would of quarantined he would of died. He was already really stressed. Thanks for all the comments everyone and i did learn a few things from some posts! thank you!!!
Im sorry but ich has a 28 day incubation period, just because it fell off your tang does not mean its gone. Ich has 4 cycles. Learn them. The period where the ich is visible only lasts 3-7 days. Get ready for round 2.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:13 PM   #37
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Hey Schism, why you arguing with these guys let them do and think what they want they'll find out soon enough
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:22 PM   #38
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I FREAKING LOVE INTERNET!!!!!

This should sum up questions about marine ich and the life cycle....

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ths-facts.html
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:27 PM   #39
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Hey Schism, why you arguing with these guys let them do and think what they want they'll find out soon enough
Not arguing, just informing. Id rather see the fish survive, so if i can beat the info into their heads, i will. Ich has to be one of the most researched topic on fish, if they would only read the facts and stop listening to all the 'treatment' hype then the cure will be pretty clear. And there are only 2 PROVEN......hypo-salinity or copper.

Its funny how many people ignore a absolute guarantee proven CURE.

An Ounce Of Prevention
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Marine Ich part 1
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Marine Ich part 2
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Garlic
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:33 PM   #40
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your absolutly right. Nikki has a great post ther also
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