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Old 08-28-2004, 11:43 PM   #1
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Cannot keep fish at all

ok, well, its been a month since i had something kill my 2 clowns and 2 cardinals,,ive been wathing tank levels, did a water change, been scared to put in a fish,,,and i got one yesterday,and today,,pop -eye, now dead,,,,whats going on,,whats in my tank,,,all tests are fine, no ammonia, no nitrate, nitrite, and ph is 8.2-8.4................what are my options here, i have 400.00 invested in my rocks,,is this bacteria living in the rocks or what ?,,,,i have about 30 inverts living in harmony on my tank,,,nothing else is dying,,im really getting frustrated here
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Old 08-28-2004, 11:51 PM   #2
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Re: Cannot keep fish at all

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Originally Posted by kingparsy
,i have about 30 inverts living in harmony on my tank,,,nothing else is dying,,im really getting frustrated here
Could be the store your getting the fish from (might try a new one) or possibley the way they are being acclimated to the tank. Preferabley you should be introducing fish to a properly cycled QT. When a new fish dies with undermined circumstances, it's best to leave the main tank fallow for a 4 week period if it wasn't QT'd first. I know it's a long stint but if the problem was parasitic, it will take that long to be rid of.

If fish are properly QT'd first, it spares the main tank of these issues completely.

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Old 08-28-2004, 11:55 PM   #3
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how do i fix the problem ,,im not even going to attempt to add anymore fish,,is there a treatment, or anything i can do, or is this going to lay dormant and attack when i put another fish in there???,,,,,even if i qt, as soon as i put the fish in,,,hell die
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Old 08-28-2004, 11:56 PM   #4
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i changed stored completely also, this is the first fish ive ever brought home from this other store whom ive been buying my live rock from all along, but no fish
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:00 AM   #5
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Agree with SteveS. We have several LFS in our area. There are a couple of them I would not buy a damsel from. Very unhealthy from the start.
When you are considering a purchase, check the fish out good. Make sure there are no apparent parasites, injuries, etc. also make sure it is eating well and is not suffering from lateral line or nutritional deficiency. Also qt will keep you from introducing any parasite or other communicable diseases into you main.
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingparsy
even if i qt, as soon as i put the fish in,,,hell die
Not so if you water parameter are good. The qt period would allow any parasites to die off with the lack of fish hosts.
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:03 AM   #7
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so its my technique, there is no parasite, or harmfull bacteria living in my tank waiting to snipe out my fish??....cause ive never had a problem till now, im still a beginner and still learning
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:04 AM   #8
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yeah , i figured thats what i was doing waiting a month or so untill i put a fish in there,,,,so how long should i wait this time?
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:08 AM   #9
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Might not be your technique, some store just have bad livestock. Doubt if there are harmful bacteria. Check out another LFS and use qt and I'll bet things will improve.
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:10 AM   #10
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so a qt does not need to cycle??? just use, clean and put away?,,just get salt levels right and ph?
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:14 AM   #11
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A cycle would be helpful, but frequent water changes are you best bet.
You can use water from you main and a seeded sponge from you sump to get it started. Just be ready to treat for disease if your main has a parasitic outbreak.
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:16 AM   #12
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seeded sponge?
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Old 08-29-2004, 12:50 AM   #13
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A seeded sponge is a sponge placed in you sump or filter for a period of weeks. It allow beneficial bacteria to accumulate. Adding this to your qt tank "jump starts" your cycle in the qt tank.
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Old 09-01-2004, 08:13 AM   #14
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I think there are a lot of things that could be going on here.

Firstly your temperature. What is it?
What about phosphates levels? There are indeed fish that are quite sensitive to phosphate levels.
I'd also be on the look out for your KH levels. They are suposedly meant to be important only to inverts such as corals, but since it has such an imporant effect on the buffering capacity it is important.

All that being "okay" I would look at the way you introduce the fish. Whenever I introduce a fish into an aquarium I have it in a one of those plastic transport bags, and then leave it in the water for around 30 minutes to allow for proper temperature changes to take effect. I then add a cup of water from the destination tank into the bag and wait another 30 minutes. I do this cup of water trick three times. Yes it does take significantly more time, but the stress on the fish is reduced greatly.

After that I would look at any other stress causes. Lots of vibrations, more so sudden ones than anything. I would also look at there being a disease or parasite.

Being a reef tank, you are going to be limited in your medical applications. If it's whitespot, itch or velvet I would recommend something called Tri-Sulpha (or tripple sulpha). It nuked the whitespot I had after about a week and I have corals an anenomes. You must be very careful about what medical remedies you add.

Even after adding these remedies I would wait for about a 4-6 weeks before adding anything.

It may also pay to add some Stress Coat and Melafix. The stress coat will nutralise some of water nasties, and also help restore the protective slime coat to the fish. The Melafix is like a general purpose anti-bacterial remedy. It's quite effective and is reef safe. In fact the marine stores I speak to say they add Melafix to aquarium that has new inhabitents, and this occurs weekly. You don't have to do it weekly as they are a pet store with huge turnover of inhabitents.

Also, water changes from a reputable source are essential to clearing up such mysterous problems. I would also add some activated carbon to help absorb the micro compounds/elements. The quality of the active carbon is also very important.

Do you have a protein skimmer?

A quaranteen tank is the best idea for new inhabitents as well.
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Old 09-01-2004, 08:53 AM   #15
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If the fish is dead by the next morning I would have to say improper acclimation. You may be buying from one of those LFS that keeps their salinity very low.. so if you don't properly acclimate the fish, the sudden rise in salinity can definitely be a cause of death.
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Old 09-01-2004, 09:16 AM   #16
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Check Steve's message. It said "properly cyled QT". Needs more than salt and proper ph. Gotta have the bacteria established that cyling provides. Chek out some of the threads or links on QTs.
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Old 09-01-2004, 09:21 AM   #17
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Oops. Kingparsy, my message above wes reacting to your Saturday, 10:10pm question about whether a QT needs to be cycled. I've found that it's a very good idea to read both pages first.
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:05 PM   #18
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well, heres some answers. my tank stays at or around 78-80 degrees, as far as phosphate levels and kh, i didnt even know i had test for those, and the this last one is the only fish that dies the next day,i had the other 4 for about 3 months and they declined rather rapidly,i do have a protein skimmer, the only thing i noticed that went wrong, were the puffed eye,,,no white spots at all..the water i use for water changes, is RO water from the lfs.,,,my filtration is 1 whisper 60 filter,(with 2 biobags),,and 1 seaclone 100 skimmer, i also have 2 maxijet 600 powerheads for flow.
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