Flame Angel and Copper ( Oh No ! )

[slovinator]

I'm finally doing it right this time... or so I thought. I am 'quarantining' my fish!! (I learned my lesson!) So I got a few new fish and noticed one had a couple minor Ich spots on it when I got him home. I figured no big deal cause I'm just going to put them in a hospital tank with some copper anyway. BUT!!! now I'm hearing bad things about flame angels and copper!! Is this really something I should be worried about?? Is it just flames or are tangs and gobies and others sensitive to copper too? What should I do?!?

[clownface]

for what its worth i have used cupramine on gobies and angels, with no problem

[slovinator]

what is cupramine

[FishFrik]

cupramine is a brand of copper medication XD

[ckmn101]

This is a quote from live aquaria- "Flame Angels are very sensitive to elevated levels of copper, and should never be exposed to levels near or above .15."
My fish guy has 30 years exp. and he says the same.
I would just go at 1/2 strength
hth
Mike

[melosu58]

I am not a big fan of copper. I believe that all fish are sensitive to it. If done right Hypo is the way to go as far as riding ick from your QT. I know some have had results but I know many that have not including death of the fish. If you do use copper, Testing and monitoring are a MUST.

[slovinator]

THanks for the info! I have actually done a 50% water change on the QT tank and am planning on doing another water change today to dramatically reduce the copper in there. I have been keeping a very keen eye on all 4 fish in the tank and they are doing 'Swimmingly'! I very excited. I like this QT idea :) everybody should do it!

[melosu58]

[quote]I like this QT idea everybody should do it!

[JM]

I'm am completely done with copper and all other chemicals in my tank. The best treatment for ailments is a freshwater dip for about 6-8 minutes once a day. I strongly discourage the use of medications.

[roka64]

From what I have read, quite a few folks here prefer the hypo treatment. It is a lot less stressful on fish as other treatments are.

[slovinator]

To be honest... I've used copper before... never had a problem with it. I was just worried about the flame since some sites mentioned it being bad for flames. My flame seems to be doing great though.

Now this freshwater dip... everything I have heard tells me its quite stressful on the fish. Catching the fish alone is a big stress and to do it everyday? And where do you put the fish when the time is up? Back in the tank with the ich in the water. I don't see how that cures the fish. I can understand the hypo-salinity and it helping the problem since ich can't survive in a low salinity. But by the nature of the parasite, I just don't see how the freshwater dips actually get rid of the problem completely.

[JM]

Freshwater dipping is the same concept as the hypo salinity except to the extreme for a short period and only treating the fish itself. The parasite/bacteria cannot survive being in the freshwater for that period of time, but the fish can. You can actually see the parasites (ich for example) falling off the fish while they are in the fresh water. Putting them back in the main tank or quarantine tank if u prefer has not ill effects on the fish, u are only treating the fishes body. You cannot totally eliminate parasites and bacteria in the water its impossible, for example ich is always present in your tank, your not going to get rid of it. The goal is to get rid of the infection on or in the fish. And u usually only have to do 1-3 dips depending on how bad the infection is to get rid of it so its not like u dip the fish every day for 2 weeks. And to prevent having to chase the fish around the tank everyday you put him in a holding area or tank during the days that u r treating it so that it is easily accessible. I dont think stress is a huge issue here, my fish show no ill effects of stress after being dipped and often eat immediately after.

[roka64]

The lower salinity in a QT will kill the ICH tomites, after the SG is down around 14% (I believe that is the number). ICH will die. The reason we generally don't do that in the main, is because that low of a drop will effect the LR and inverts. In the QT, there is no LR (hopeful), so we can lower the salinity/SG enough that the ICH can not survive...just like a FW dip, it just takes a little longer. That is just what I have read. I am sure there are folks that have been successful might chime in....
The reason the main is left fallow, is to starve the ICH.
I have never dealt with ICH, so I can only go on the successful stories of the folks that have gone through it, themselves.
I'm not trying to say you are wrong. I can only regurgitate what I have read at this point.

[JM]

I'm not saying hypo doesnt work i am saying dipping does the same thing just not to the whole tank. Hypo does work, but just like people say dipping is stressful to the fish i believe salinity that low also causes sress. The bottom line is chemicals arent the answer. There are natural/non chemical ways to deal with these problems.

[roka64]

There are natural/non chemical ways to deal with these problems.

I agree

[lando]

Doing a FW dip is far more stressful to a fish then utilizing a well managed hypo treatment that is done over time. A FW dip is a bit outdated and serves no great resolve in the treatment of ick. As mentioned, the stress on the animal is likely far more destructive then the outcome. While hypo may not be an ideal condition for a fish, when done slowly and properly, it is far less damaging. Remember, ick is a parasite...they have very hard exoskeletons and can remain resistant to FW for a longer period of time them previously thought. This is part of the reason FW dips are a bit outdated.

[melosu58]

I agree with Lando that a FW dip is far more stressful than hypo which is done slowly and over time. For every result like JM is talking about I can give you several that resulted in bad news even death most of the time.

[Codyheitmiller]

Good thing I read this before doing copper. Returning copper later today now.

[solidsnakejv]

I have used cupramine in a qt on a potter's angel before without a problem.it has cured the 6 fish that I was used yet on.

[Codyheitmiller]

Dang this thread is old... I gatta start looking at dates before I post, sorry guys.