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Old 10-30-2010, 03:10 AM   #1
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Help! Am I going to lose my Emperor Angelfish?

Hey guys is my Emperor Angel going to make it? Did I do the right thing? I had him in a QT dosing him with copper the last two weeks for ick. Unfortunately the ammonia has gone out of control. It's up to 8.0 on the API test kit because I set this QT up without it being cycled. I was suppose to maintain water changes through out the 21 day period of ick to keep the ammonia down, but for some reason I never have any luck with that. (I try I really do, I guess I just don't do them often enough) I was told to use only water from my DT for water changes as this would speed up the cycling process.

I decided to pull the Emperor out and move him back over to the DT. He hasn't had ick on him for some time now, but I think he's in the stages of ammonia poisoning. He's very lathargic and has some cloudy eye and seems like he may not be able to see, also his color is very bad. Had a good appetite up until today unfortunately not anymore. Should I have left him in that QT? I just felt like I'd never be able to get that ammonia down and since he seemed like the ammonia was really getting to him, and I hadn't seen any ick on him for several days I made the call. I figured he needed some relief and if I find the ick returns I could get the QT in better shape and re medicate him if necessary.

I don't want to lose my Emperor Angel! Please Help.

Thanks,

Steve
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:22 AM   #2
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The cloudy eyes are a sign of not so good water parameters. It can be cured by improving your water. I would do 25% PWC`s twice a week. improved water parameters is the only way I know to get rid of cloudy eyes. Also moving this to the sick fish forum.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:32 AM   #3
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The ammonia sky rocketed in the QT so could that be why he developed cloudy eye and is lethargic? I moved him back into my DT and out of the QT.

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Old 10-30-2010, 10:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratmaster View Post
Hey guys is my Emperor Angel going to make it? Did I do the right thing? I had him in a QT dosing him with copper the last two weeks for ick. Unfortunately the ammonia has gone out of control. It's up to 8.0 on the API test kit because I set this QT up without it being cycled. I was suppose to maintain water changes through out the 21 day period of ick to keep the ammonia down, but for some reason I never have any luck with that. (I try I really do, I guess I just don't do them often enough) I was told to use only water from my DT for water changes as this would speed up the cycling process.
In an uncycled QT you must perform 50% water changes daily to avoid a cycle and NH3 spike. Also, most test kits are altered by medications so your readings are likely skewed on the high side. What most companies fail to advise is that you are supposed to conduct water changes throughout the treatment and redose according to % loss. For example, if you dose 2mL of copper and later perform a 50% water change, you would redose half the initial dosage at 1mL. Of course, you should test the water at least 30mins. after a water change to get an accurate copper reading before redosing.

Quote:
I decided to pull the Emperor out and move him back over to the DT. He hasn't had ick on him for some time now, but I think he's in the stages of ammonia poisoning. He's very lathargic and has some cloudy eye and seems like he may not be able to see, also his color is very bad. Had a good appetite up until today unfortunately not anymore. Should I have left him in that QT? I just felt like I'd never be able to get that ammonia down and since he seemed like the ammonia was really getting to him, and I hadn't seen any ick on him for several days I made the call. I figured he needed some relief and if I find the ick returns I could get the QT in better shape and re medicate him if necessary.

I don't want to lose my Emperor Angel! Please Help.

Thanks,

Steve
More than likely your readings were altered by the copper, but do not doubt if there was some NH3 present if no water changes were conducted for a period of time. The cloudy eyes can be treated with an anti-bacterial medication such as Nitrofurazone or Maracyn 2 (erythromycin).
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:06 AM   #5
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I do agree that you`ll need to do 50% PWC`s in the QT. Since that tank is not cycled PWC`s are the only way to lower Ammonia.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:37 AM   #6
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Trying to maintain the proper dosage in a QT tank is why I prefer using Hyposalinity for treating Ich. I recommend that you do 20% pwc's 2x/day for the first week while the biofilter get's established. Longer if you are not bringing filter material from the DT to the QT tank.

Tank water contains almost no bacteria. Doing pwc's from the DT to the QT can only help re-infect fish in the QT. You are also using water depleted of trace elements in your QT. You should always use new SW mix for pwc's in the QT.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:58 AM   #7
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As a caveat, the main problem with Hyposalinity is the ineffectiveness against Uronema, of which lower salinity accelerates. In accordance, maintaining proper dosage in a QT isn't rocket science either. IMO, if you can properly administer an initial dose, you can properly maintain it.
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:49 PM   #8
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He's been in there two weeks already and everything was great, then I got lazy unfortunately and didn't the change the water for 2-3 days and man did the ammonia sky ROCKET. He seems like he is doing much better since I moved him out of the QT and into my main tank. The ick seems all gone, too. If I decided to not do the last week of quarantine (since he's already moved over anyway) will his eye heal on his own? I certainly don't want to medicate him in my main tank, but on the other hand that ammonia is so high now I don't even think water changes can help. I did a 75% water change on the QT last night and the ammonia still read at 1.0!

And after this is all done and gone I'll be getting this QT cycled and always it setup. I don't want to do this again.

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Old 10-30-2010, 10:53 PM   #9
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James, the issue here is Ich. Though my information is that Hypo (1.011) IS an effective treatment for Uronema.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:46 PM   #10
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I know of the issue, which I didn't bother addressing because the OP used copper. Hypo is good for osmoregulation and eventual ich eradication, but Uronema seems to thrive at low salinities and opens fish to, ime, worse maladies than ich. For what it's worse, I recently ran hypo because my meds. didn't arrive and Uronema developed. Within 24hrs. I lost 3 fish overnight in QT to Uronema during Hypo.
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:27 AM   #11
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Thanks for all the help guys. I did basically a 100% water change and started over with some of my main tank water. I have the emperor in there now (which by the way his name is Bandit) in the QT and am dosing the erythromycin.

What doesn't make any sense to me is I was using erythromycin while I was dosing copper at the same time. I suppose my ammonia readings just got so high in the water that Bandit came down with cloudy eye even though I had erythromycin in the water? Bah it's all confusing to me, I don't know why I can't just have an aquarium ever like some people and not have any ick or health problems with my fish :P

Any how just so this doesn't happen again once these guys are all 100% again (and hopefully I don't lose Bandit or any of my fish for that matter) I am not only going to make a much better effort for weekly water changes and maintenance, but I am going to get a cycled QT up and have it all the time just so if this ever happens again.
Oh and how long with the erythromycin take to work? His eye looks HORRIBLE! It's huge, I hope it's going to work.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:27 AM   #12
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Guys my Emp is still not looking good. I decided to get him out of that QT because I just cannot keep the ammonia and nitrites down no matter how many water changes I do. He's back in the DT and he's alart, swimming and even eating (though not his usual appetite) I am just concerned because I think I might have used to much of the erythromycin on him! His skin is all like white colored and spec looking (it's not ick as he was treated with copper) is it possible to OD on the erythromycin?
I figured it was best to get him out of there, he was medicated for the ick and for the pop eye with the erythromycin but the water parameters are just wayyy to out of wack for that to be used a QT and even through water changes I just cannot get it under control. The tank just needs to get cycled and will be left up forever as my sink tank so I don't have to go through this water change stuff every day to keep the ammonia down. I just don't wanna lose my Emperor, I love him! What else can I do though? This is so frustrating.
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