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Old 05-10-2006, 11:52 PM   #1
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Help me set up a QT to treat Ich :(

My royal gramma and green chromis got ich. Hundreds of them! I want to set up an 20G QT tank to treat the all fishes with copper (i don't have a refractometer T.T) and have some question:

1. Bare-bottom?
2. What kind of filtration? I heard that I only need a HOB filter but what kind? Any suggestion on brand on model for a 20G? Do i need to put the filter pad in my 30G for a few day for the bacterias to colonize it or the copper is just gonna kill them anyway?
3. No LR or LS right? Just something for the fish to get cover?
4. What brand/kind of copper treatment should i buy?
5. Do i need to cycle the QT before using it?
6. How would i deal with the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate problem since there's no skimmer or AC?
7. So, all i need in the 20G is: HOB filter, SW with copper, PVC? Any heater or PH or light?

That's all for now. PLEASE respond quickly. I can't bare to see my fish suffer from those evil spots! Thanks a million to any help!

EDITED: I have a weird question. I was looking at the Coralife Turbo Twister UV sterilizer (the one that is rated for 125G). Would having a UV sterilizer get rid of the ich problem? Well, my thought is when the ich parasites fall off the fish, they will get sucked into the sterilizer and killed. The free swimming ones will also be killed. Would this logic work?
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:17 AM   #2
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Yes. Bare bottom tank with a few pcs of PVC for hiding spaces. I've had a few pcs of rock deddicated to QT and copper for mine. I had a cheap skilter on one of mine. Using a CPR bakpak now on my 29g QT.

Maybe u can use water from the main to fill the QT, but yes, it'll have to be cycled or instant cycled with a filter pad or something from the main. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you about seeding/cycling more definitively.

Gonna have to do water changes to battle ammonia in the QT. Get a new trash can maybe to store pre-mixed SW.

UV's only kill what swims thru them. It will not cure what you have, only help prevent. Also, your main may have to go without fish for 8 weeks. Ick cannot survive without fish hosts.

Also, didja know that a 29g tank takes up the same footprint as a 20g? If a larger QT, ammonia won't be as bad.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:44 AM   #3
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Moved to “sick fish or coral” forum:

A 20 gal is sufficient but as austinsdad said the larger the better since you should also QT your clowns along with the other two mentioned and keep your main fishless for 8 weeks for any remaining parasites to die off. Performing Hyposalinity would be less stressful but since you don’t have a refractometer is generally not recommended.

As far as effective ich treatments there are a lot of brands to choose from but I’ve had good success with Kent RXP Marine Parasite Treatment which works without using copper.

Using filter media within the HOB (preferably one with a bio-wheel) from your main tank will greatly help seed your QT with bacteria and keep your levels in check. Get one in the 200+ gph range if using a 20 gal tank or 300 gph if using the 29 gal tank. I would definitely have a 30 gal trashcan with premixed SW on hand to combat nh3/no2 levels just in case.
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Old 05-11-2006, 11:01 AM   #4
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Pepper based remedies will not treat this problem with any consistancey. You are better off with either hypo or copper. The best copper you could get is Cupramine by Seachem and their corresponding multitest copper kit.

As far as water quality, water changes are your only means of control on a newly set up tank. Seeding with main tanks water is pointless although you can use it for the initial fill only. Water alone does not carry suffiecient quantities of bacteria to amount to anything. Do not use any type of sorbant resin or carbon to help either, it will just remove the copper. You also cannot use a UV with copper.

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Old 05-11-2006, 06:43 PM   #5
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austin, i have an old 20G and it doesn't have the same footprint as a 29G XD

I have a copper test already. It came with my test kit.

So, let see if i read this right:

_50G of water. 20 for the tank and 30 for WC. Do u think i will need more than 30G over a 8 weeks period? ($50)
_Barebottom with PVC
_HOB filter (What brand/model?)
_Seachem Cupramine ($6)
_No heater?
_My fish are very active, eating like pigs. Just that the spots look really awful. Since they are not really "suffering", can i try to cycle the QT tank before adding the fish so i don't have to spend so much on WC's?

*I have an idea: Since there will be no fish in my main, can i just use the skimmer that i have for the QT? Would this post a threat to my main? THANKS ALOT GUYS
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishFrik
_50G of water. 20 for the tank and 30 for WC. Do u think i will need more than 30G over a 8 weeks period? ($50)
In an uncycled tank, be prepared for 50-75% daily water changes.

Quote:
_HOB filter (What brand/model?)
Not relavent, just get something with good flow and a biowheel. The biowheel being important.

Quote:
_No heater?
Yes, you need a heater. Stable temp means reduced stress. 78-80°, no higher.

Quote:
_My fish are very active, eating like pigs. Just that the spots look really awful. Since they are not really "suffering", can i try to cycle the QT tank before adding the fish so i don't have to spend so much on WC's?
The longer you wait the more opportunity the parasite has to multiply and more heavily infested the fish will become. Trying the cycle the QT would be pointless at this junksure, it would take too long.

Quote:
*I have an idea: Since there will be no fish in my main, can i just use the skimmer that i have for the QT? Would this post a threat to my main?
You should not use anything from the QT on the main once copper has been used. The risk of contamination would be risky.

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Old 05-11-2006, 09:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
In an uncycled tank, be prepared for 50-75% daily water changes.
Are u serious?! I am 100% sure that my dad is not going to put up with that... Wow... there goes my QT plan... Mayb i should try some other way. Man...

I don't know if this way would work, but i think i've got to try:

_Garlic soak food daily to strengthen their immune system. This would reduce the number of ich parasites reinfecting my fish.
_UV sterilizer ($100... i don't even know if my dad would agree to buying one) to reduce the number of free swimming parasites
_Skunk cleaner shrimp reduces number of parasites on LR and LS
_Good water parameters to keep fish in optimal state

After awhile... i guess the ich parasites will be killed off or my fish will build up an immune system that can't be infected by these devils. :'( *crosses my fingers*

I don't know if this is gonna work but... that much WC is not gonna do for my dad He's very busy on weekdays. Anyone has any other way to treat this problem?
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:35 PM   #8
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What is in the main tank besides these two fish? Inverts, sand, LR, corals and such?

If you're willing to spend $100.00 on the UV, a refractometer will cost ½ that and solve almost all your problems. Depends on the above answer though.

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Old 05-11-2006, 09:49 PM   #9
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Check myinfo XD
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:00 PM   #10
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Well that idea's not going to work then, too many inverts.

I will say though that if using hyposalinity, you have many many more options for water quality control. Polyfilter and/or PURApads, Purigen, carbon, moving established biomedia from the main tank to the QT, occassional use of detoxifiers (Prime, Amquel etc) along with water changes. Even with these in place, you'll still need daily water changes, just not as much. With copper, none of these options are available.

If you go the UV route, you will most likely never be rid of the problem. It will come and go and fish will be lost in the process.

I should also point out that even on your main tank, you should be doing at least 10% weekly water changes

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Old 05-11-2006, 10:16 PM   #11
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So, i can try the UV route for a few weeks to see what the result is? If it get worse, i'll "try my best" to to explain to my dad the daily WC's (this is not gonna be easy). U suggest that i should do 10% WC weekly to help with the ich problem or is it a required tank maintaining thing? I usually do a 5G WC per 2 or 3 weeks depending on my dad's mood lol.

*yes... not being able to pay for my hobby sucks... it's all gonna change this summer once i get my internship job *
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:01 AM   #12
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Howedie!!! I am your neighbor. I live in the out skirts of Houston. I am dealing with ick right now too. I have had my fish in qt since saturday. I had an hob/w bio wheel on my main and being that it is fully seeded I didn't have to cycle my qt at all. This is day 5 and no ammonia spike!!!! I am monitoring very closely with my fingers crossed. I don't know if your fish are really stressed or not but it only takes a few weeks to seed a filter in the main. I tried ick attack first it didn't get rid of my problem but it did seem to slow things down. Maybe it could buy you some time? A seeded filter will help your qt. If you get a uv don't use it with your copper. I does something to the copper chemically and it becomes toxic
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:28 AM   #13
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So, i can try the UV route for a few weeks to see what the result is? If it get worse, i'll "try my best" to to explain to my dad the daily WC's (this is not gonna be easy).
Yes the UV can be used if that's your only option but like I said, it will not eliminate the problem. Keep working on Dad.

Quote:
U suggest that i should do 10% WC weekly to help with the ich problem or is it a required tank maintaining thing? I usually do a 5G WC per 2 or 3 weeks depending on my dad's mood lol.
No not for the ich, tank health in general. 10%+ weekly water changes are a great benefit to any tank.

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Old 05-12-2006, 11:32 PM   #14
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Thanks alot steve. I had a long talk to my dad today and he agreed to buy the UV. Though, i asked him if he wanted to QT the fish and do the WC's before i mentioned the UV, he disapproved the QT way right away lol. He said getting the fish out would be a pain and he will not put up with that much WC's.

I will try to do more WC's to increase my tank's health. Thanks for this advice also. I usually get suggestion of 10% WC per 2 weeks or so.

About eliminating the ich parasites, im not trying to agrue with u, but I have a thought about it and would like to discuss this. I don't see how the UV can't get rid of them. Here's how i think of it: UV is used to "prevent" parasites. This means that if any parasites enter the tank, the UV will destroy all of them. Now back to my tank, a 125G UV would surely suck all of my tank's water and cure it from parasites in a matter of a few hours. My water will be parasites-free, yes? The parasites that stay on LR, LS will have to swim sometimes to find a host. Once they swim, they'll get killed also. The eggs that are laid on the sandbed will eventually hatch and swim around = killed. The parasites on the fish will eventually drop off to mutiply. Once they drop off, they'll get sucked into the UV and killed. If any of them make it to the bottom and avoid being sucked into the UV, the next time they hatch, they'll get killed when they try to find a host.

This will take awhile to totally get rid of the parasites due to the chances that the parasites may avoid being killed but I think they it IS possible to eliminate ich with UV.

P.S.: I suck at expressing my thought lol
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Old 05-13-2006, 07:20 AM   #15
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There will be plenty of parasites that will never get "sucked up" and stay in your tank forever I believe, hence the 8 weeks.

Good luck with your plan.
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Old 05-13-2006, 08:30 AM   #16
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I agree with austin about removing the fish and being fishless. The UV will not remove all the parasite just the free floaters that get sucked up in the chamber.
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Old 05-13-2006, 01:10 PM   #17
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I really want to go with the fishless plan but i can't :/ My dad won't put up with it
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Old 05-14-2006, 09:40 AM   #18
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Yesterday, I rushed to the LFS to buy a 9W Coralife UV, hoping to help my fish out ASAP. I came home and my royal gramma was covered with hundreds more white spots... laying on the sand... gasping... T.T My hermits were already herding around... I had to put my fish out of the misery before the hermit could tear his flesh so... i took him out and put him in a bow of freshwater. He swam crazily for 30 seconds and died... He was my favorite fish

My thought about his death is, he died b/c he didn't consume as much garlic as he should. He kept spitting out any garlic soaked food and only took 1 or 2 bites when he got really hungry. My green chromis ate any garlic soak food as he could and now he's cleaned of ich. No spot is visible. It does mean something when one fish is infected heavily while the others are un-affected. Mayb my gramma's immune system was too weak.

The UV has been up and running since last night. Im leaving it on 24/7. I will keep u guys posted.
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:56 AM   #19
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Chormis is a lot more hardy than a gramma anyway. And remember, just becuase no spots are visible doesn't mean the tank is cured. And remember although garlic might prevent fish from parasites, it doens't cure one that has it.

Good luck.

BTW, how many fish are in the tank left? I'm thinking that as they will all possibly die off, you may get your fishless tank anyway . Then it'll be on you not to add any more for the 8 weeks recommended.
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Old 05-15-2006, 08:13 AM   #20
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I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I am running a uv also but I still had ick. I thought it would be really hard to catch the fish too but it really wasn't that bad. I have a 125g 6foot long tank/w 150lbs of lr. I feed the fish only on one end od the tank, when they came down to feed one morning I slipped a divider in and my 125g became a 20g. I removed the rock that was on the smaller side to the larger side and the fish had no where to run but into my large net. I am treating with copper. Hypo is better if you have a refractormeter. Due to my fully seeded filter I haven't had to do any water changes. Good luck on what ever you try.



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