Ich and Coppersafe

[Danton]

Hi,
Newbie here. I have a 110 gallon tank that I'm treating for ich. No live rock or any inverts. 1 3" Bi-color Angel, 1 4" White Spotted Grouper, 1 3" Bursa Trigger, 1 12" Snowflake Eel and 4 damsels. All water parameters are perfect. Temp has been raised from 78' to 80.5' and specific gravity has been lowered
to .014 from .025. I've been treating with Coppersafe for one week now and the trigger got worse yesterday showing more spots. I just got a copper test today made by Seachem. The test results showed a copper reading of 1. ppm. I understand from reading old posts that it should be 1.5 to 2 but my test kit only goes to 1. Am I right about this? I have removed all carbon but do I also need to turn off the skimmer and uv sterilizer? I have just to be safe but wasn't sure. Any help appreciated...

Thanks,
Danton

 

[TheRealFF]

You don't have to turn off the UV sterilizer, i don't think. The skimmer should be off. HTH

 

[Brenden]

If you have dropped the salinity why are you even using the med? I would just run hypo on the tank. You have no substrate or rock in this tank?

 

[steve-s]

Remove the copper, fast. Water changes and carbon. You are seriously risking copper poisoning, especially with a test kit that isn't helping.

Once the copper is gone, reduce the salinity further to 1.009 or preferabley measured with a refractometer @ 14 ppt.

FWIW, when the test kit only goes so high, you dilute the sample with RO/DI water.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Danton]

I went with the copper because I had a Rock Beauty Angel that came down with ich really quick and I figured copper would work faster then hypo. The angel did die as I was too late anyway. I dropped the salinity as far as I could feeling safe knowing that the my SG meter is not that accurate. I also don't have a refractometer to do hypo properly but one is on the way. The trigger does look much better today. Only a few specs left as opposed to a hundred! I will keep everything the way it is until the refractometer arrives. At which point I will try the hypo method with RO/DI water. I have no live rock only dead/decorative coral but I do have live sand. Thanks again!

Regards,
Danton

 

[Brenden]

Have you tested the PH?

 

[Danton]

Yes, I'm keeping an eye on that. It's currently at 8.2 and I have some buffer for when I do the hypo. Thanks for the heads up anyway.

Regards,
Danton

 

[melosu58]

Just so you know when all those specks fall off the fall to the bottom and over 200 small fries called tomites will come from each speck. The fight is not over just because the specks fell off. Continue to treat with hypo. IMO you should never treat with both copper and hypo.

 

[tmkx3]

I am dealing with ick too. I have read that the uv sterlizer does something to coppersafe that causes the copper to become toxic. Something about it becoming free floating I think. I am using a product called ick attach six days later I still have ick. Where are you getting your refractormeter & how much was it? If you don't mind me asking. Good luck

Tinia

 

[clownface]

tina- i tried ick attack for no results go to e-bay for a refractor that is where i got mine for about 40$- i tried hypo and i had mixedf results so i went to cuparmine copper treatment and have not had one problem- good luck

 

[reefrunner69]

FWIW, coppersafe is a chealated copper solution and a regular copper test kit will not measure it, you need a copper test kit for a chealated copper solution.

I agree with all the above posts...remove the copper and treat with hypo.

 

[melosu58]

I got mine for 40.00 at Smith and Foster

 

[Danton]

Yes I'm aware that ich returns 10x worse that is why I have Coppersafe in there for the moment. To kill it in the free swimming stage. The test kit I used is for chelated copper also. It's just not made to go as high as 15ppm so you have to dilute the solution which does confuse me... As stated earlier I'm not treating with hypo and copper. As soon as the refractometer arrives then I will add carbon and do a PWC while lowering the SG to 1.009. Is .014 really considered hypo? I'm new to this so maybe it is. I bought my meter on ebay for like $40. Hopefully it is of good quality. At the moment the fish are still doing well...

Regards,
Danton

 

[Brenden]

Is .014 really considered hypo?

No, It is not low enough to do any good.

 

[steve-s]

Is .014 really considered hypo?

No! If using a refractometer, target 14 ppt. It's the measure on the right side of the guage. You'll understand once you get it. SG is temp dependant so it cannot be dierctly correlated to a salinity reference without mathematically calculating the temp variance. Ignore SG references and just be concerned with salinity measured in ppt. You'll do just fine if so.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Danton]

Well I finally got the refractometer on Friday. During the past three days I finally got the salinity down to 14 ppt. It's amazing how much water I had to change. It seems my old SG meter was off by 3-4 points. So in reality my water was still at .020 before I did the major water change just recently. My water parameters are right where they should be with the PH at 8.1. Which I'll probably bump up to 8.3 in the next few days. How long can the fish sustain such a low salinity? Just curious....

 

[Brenden]

Be sure you raise salinity slowly when hypo is done. 6-8 weeks I think is about the max time at 14ppt. After that it has the potential to cause organ damage. 4 weeks after the last signs of ich is long enough for hypo. You can wait 5 weeks just to make sure. Once again make sure you increase salinity slowly. Fish can not handle the increase like they can a decrease.

 

[i have crabs]

i agree not to do both treatments but also a hater of hypo everytime ive done it the hypo cures the ich only to leave worse problems behind wich usally kill your fish with a infection or something else,it has worked for me but only half the fish ive done hypo on are still alive while every fish ive ever coppered is still alive so im shure ill be shunned for not agreeing with hypo but ill never do it again ever.

 

[steve-s]

Some people have bad experiences with almost every remedy out there. It does not mean the treatment is faulty.


As far as how long they can remain at that level, actually several months without concern.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinityeffects.html

Cheers
Steve

 

[i have crabs]

the hypo worked fine every time just the die off from the tank seems to give bigger problems than the ich ever did