Need help. Things are getting out of hand!!!

[begginersluck]

I recently posted a thread regarding fish dying and they were dropping like flies. I lost about 8 wreckfish or anthias and 3 different tangs. It all started when I added the powder blue and she got ich so bad and spread it onto the other fish. Strangely the anthias didn't show any sign of ich neither did the copperband butterfly. We went over how I added too many fish too soon which I fully understand now and know I made a mistake by doing so.

I also squired some free live rock which had all sorts of growth on it and I'm convinced this helped wipe out over half my population of fish.

The 2 clowns I've had for a long time now have very bad ich and so does my regal tang. The tang has had it in the past however only mild cases and fought it off everytime. I've just returned home today to find a dead cleaner shrimp and I haven't seen the copperband in a couple of days either.

I'm planning on a freshwater dip for the clowns and maybe the tang. Currently setting up the water.

I did a 25% water change on Saturday.

Parameters are,

Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Salinity 1.026
Phosphate 0.36
Nitrate 7-9

I want to treat all the fish for white spot however I'm concerned if I set up a new tank and have to wait for it to cycle I may loose the fish. Is there a quicker way of QT'ING the fish and starting the treatment? Copper or hypo?

[Bectan01]

I think the best you can do is take some established rock from you display (if so, never put it back in the DT) or filter Media. You will need to test and perform regular water changes anyway but some old stuff in there with some bb will help. What to you think you'll do? Copper or hypo?

[TheTodd]

+1

It does not need to cycle, but you've got to watch parameters and be ready for frequent water changes. Adding something from your DT will help since it should have some BB in/on it.

I'd strongly encourage leaving the DT fallow for several weeks (6 is ideal) so that all of the Ich dies off in there from lack of a fish to host it. Hopefully the remaining fish pull through and go back into a clean tank and this is the last you have to deal with Ich.

I think hypo is better, but you want to use a refractometer so that you are sure your readings are correct. Copper works, may be a little easier, but its basically a poison to fish, so I think it stresses them more.

[begginersluck]

I think I'm going to try hypo then. These fish have been through a lot so I'd be surprised if they die.

Ive just managed to pick up a 3 foot aquarium with a nice hood (not that it matters) and a decent eheim filter. I have all the media to set it up straight away and I also have about 15 kilos of live rock I can use to cycle the filter.

How long should I leave it before adding the fish and starting the treatment if the filter is cycling. My plan is to use this tank for every new fish I buy going forward. Ie learnt the hard way! I will be removing the live rock once the filter is cycled.

[TheTodd]

If your fish are looking really bad, I would get them going now. Make sure you read up on how to do hypo. By the time you are done with treatment and fallow DT, the QT will likely be cycled. QTing new additions moving forward is wise. Ideally, you catch any nasties before adding them into your DT and that tank stays free of disease/parasites.

Many of us have learned the hard way. Me being one of them.

[begginersluck]

Ok Todd I'm happy to go ahead with it although they're not too bad I gave the 2 clowns and the tang a fresh water dip and they're looking much better.

If I transfer them across straight away should I still cycle the filter and use that going forward? I'm guessing twice daily water tests and changes as needed?

[begginersluck]

This is how it's looking so far? the rock is spare and could either go in my sump or sell it. I've just put it in though to cycle the filter.

[begginersluck]

Forgot to add a picture

[Nosaj81]

no live rock or sand in qt tank just a power head and some places for the fish to hide, cleaner shrimp are not effected by ich they can carry it but it will not reproduce on them they need a fish host, i have tryed hypo and it did nothing for my fish i have tryed a couple reef safe ich med and they didnt work, i would go copper treatment in qt tank asap and leave dt fallow for 6 weeks, you will have to do water changes on qt tank every couple days

[begginersluck]

The live rock is only to seed the filter. It's a brand new setup pretty much so what I'm trying to get my head around is the filtration part of it

[TheTodd]

A lot of people will keep a small filter or even a sponge in their sump just to add to their QT. Given time, they collect BB and can help with keeping parameters in check. You still want to watch those and do water changes as needed.

Hypo should work. I've heard that sometimes it is not low enough and/or people use hydrometers, which are not as accurate as refractometers, so they get inaccurate readings and its not as "hypo"as they think. Copper works too though.

Cleaner shrimp do not do much for Ich. Same for cleaner wrasses. They might peck at the white spots, but those are simply skin reactions to the parasite burrowing into the skin. Cleaners don't get into the skin. If you have cleaner shrimp in a DT, there's nothing wrong with them (they are actually cool to watch in action), they just don't do as much as some people think for disease.

[begginersluck]

Ok so is it safe to QT these fish with a brand new filter and do the water changes and tests as require?

If this is the way then I'm still worried about the fish being in ammonia or nitrite. Il need to have plenty of fresh saltwater mixed up?

How often should I do water changes?

[Nosaj81]

the qt tank is not really supposed to have filtration you can use a hob filter with filter floss no carbon, carbon will remove medication. copper will kill the beneficial bacteria even if you have some in there

[begginersluck]

I just bought a filter lol.

[begginersluck]

It's is really confusing because some people are saying use a filter and others are saying you don't need one.

If I don't use a filter then il have to do daily water changes?

If I do use one the copper will kill the bacteria in the filter meaning its useless and il still have to do daily waypter changes?

I don't have time to do daily water changes for 6 to 8 weeks

[Bectan01]

I think you are looking at daily water changes either way you go so be prepared. It really sucks but its the only thing that will cure your fishes

[TheTodd]

You do not need a filter. You need something to keep water circulating (powerhead usually, but filter could work as long as it moves a decent amt of water), possibly a heater (if you normally need one to keep your DT tank at a certain temp and ideally a big piece of PVC (or two) for your fish to hide in. Keep an eye on parameters and change water as needed. That will vary depending on the fish, how many fish, size of tank, etc. The idea of having a sponge/filter/whatever, that has BB already on it works better for hypo as i do recall hearing that copper kills the BB. I also believe that having carbon in a filter pad will help filtration, to a point, with hypo, but actually works against copper.

[begginersluck]

Ok so after sleeping on it and having a QT setup I have decided what I want to do.

I want to use hypo for the infected fish and for all new fish moving forward.

The setup includes a heater, small power head, eheim external filter with filter media, sponge and floss, a blue moon light and blue backing.

I want to use this method as I want a fully cycled tank for the future to QT my fish without the danger of any ammo or trite spike. I also appreciate I will need to do water changes frequently however in my new house the QT will be sat right next to the barrel I use to mix my saltwater and the RODI unit. Easy peasy.

Last question before I do this: if I keep on top of my water changes is it safe to do this baring in mind the filter is not cycled. I need to treat for ich almost immediately and don't want a cycle to kill them.

[Nosaj81]

this is a copy/paste of a section of an article on hypo


If the treatment tank has an active biological filter, don't assume it's working. When salinity is lowered the bacteria sometimes enter into a state of suspension and hold off in their metabolism of ammonia and nitrites. Controlling water quality and especially pH will be the challenge. Check for ammonia, nitrites, and pH twice each day at the start, until readings are zero for ammonia and nitrites. Don't count on the pH to remain steady. It must be checked no less than twice a day and if needed, adjusted.

Make water changes to control organics, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, etc. If all is steady, still make water changes of 35% or more every other day. After the first water use, the only water to use to make changes is made up water from salt. DO NOT USE DISPLAY TANK WATER to make water changes in a treatment tank, no matter what disease is being treated.

[begginersluck]

This is the first I'm hearing about a filter not working due to lower salinity.

This all sounds very stressful to the fish as they could be exposed to ammonia whichever way I do it.