Will this work as a QT? (gramma has ich) HELP!

[Magnus]

Hey everyone,

Bad news...my royal gramma has ich. The tell-tale white "salt" spots have appeared on him. Based on research from this forum, seems a hyposalinity treatment is my best shot. A few questions though:

1. Is the 3 gallon tank pictured ok for a hospital tank? I just need a heater for it. Otherwise, I may have to purchase a new tank.

1a. Do they make a heater for a small tank like this?

2. Do I still feed the gramma while in the tank?

3. How do I acclimatize him to the new salinity, and then when he's cured, how do I get him back to the regular tank?

4. Will the addition of a cleaner shrimp help (not solve) the ich problem in the main tank?

 

[roka64]

1. That should work, add a piece of PVC for him to hide and feel safe.
1a. I'm not sure but possibly.
2. Yes.
3. Start the QT as the same salinity as your main and slowly bring down the salinity to 1.009. Once the ich is gone, slowly bring it back up to the same as your main's.
4. Do you have other fish in the main? It is best to let the main go fallow for 6-8 weeks to starve out the ich. If you have fish in the main, I would look into soaking thier food in garlic guard to hopefully boost their immune systems.

 

[Magnus]

Yeah, I have a clown fish in the tank as well. Should I put both in the QT?

Also...by soaking with garlic...do you mean mince the garlic and put it in some water with their food, but then remove the garlic?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Agree with what roka said.

They sell garlic extract at your LFS to mix with food, but it's not meant as a cure... just an "appetite stimulant". If you use too much, it'll often confuse the fish. It's also reported to be an immune system booster... but there's really no scientific evidence to support it.

Here's a good article on hyposalinity. Think it tells you everything you need to know:

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Hyposalinity Treatment

Also... love the picture of the cat waiting patiently for the tank to be stocked. Too funny.

 

[Magnus]

Wow, that's a fantastic article. Ok...I'm going to Big Al's tommorow. I'll get a new hydrometer, as well as see about a small heater for that 3 gallon.

That article mentions 4-6 weeks of treatment, 6 being optimal. Will my gramma and clown be ok in that 3 gallon? Or should I get something slightly bigger? If I do the full 6 weeks, that would also be time to allow any ich in my main to die off right?

Also, if I keep that 3 gallon running, can I use that as a quarantine tank for new fish?

 

[OniTweak]

Wal Mart sells heaters that will fit in a 3g without a problem.

 

[Magnus]

Great. Thanks Onitweak.

 

[Magnus]

Another question...ich doesn't affect invertebrates right? Is it ok to add a cleaner shrimp to my tank right now?

 

[roka64]

Inverts will not be infested by ich.
I highly suggest you buy a refractometer. It will be a lot more accurate and easy to use. It is important when doing hyposalinity. You will find a huge difference between what your hydro measures and the "real" reading of a refracto. The number of the difference may seem small to us but to your critters, it is HUGE.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Wow, that's a fantastic article. Ok...I'm going to Big Al's tommorow. I'll get a new hydrometer, ...

Get a refractometer... you really need the repeatability and accuracy of one when you're doing hypo.

[Edit: Oops... didn't see your post there Scott. Yeah... what he said.]

 

[Magnus]

Refractometer...got it. I'll let you guys know how I make out once I go to big Al's tonight.

 

[roka64]

One more thing, get the calibration solution for the refracto as well.

 

[Magnus]

What do you guys think of this refractometer?

Salinity Refractometer: Sybon Scientific Instruments

Also, since the gramma and clown have to be in this QT for 6 weeks, do you guys think I should use a bigger tank? I have a 25 or so gallon that I could clean out and use (it's been sitting dryin my garage). Just need a heater and a light...

 

[melosu58]

Looks good to me.

 

[Mazdaman]

why qt? if the whole main tank as it, why not treat just the main tank and not buying extra stuff for the qt. qt are great and serve their purpose, but from what I remember about ich, the tank has it; not just the fish. if you qt, treat and re-introduce to the main tank, they will get it again.

 

[Innovator]

why qt? if the whole main tank as it, why not treat just the main tank and not buying extra stuff for the qt. qt are great and serve their purpose, but from what I remember about ich, the tank has it; not just the fish. if you qt, treat and re-introduce to the main tank, they will get it again.

Parasites cannot live/reproduce without a host so if the tank is kept fallow for 30 days the population should die out. By performing hyposalinity in your main tank you highly risk killing your fauna plus virtually all medications affect your biological filtration. A separate qt is essential in maintaining proper control of a given treatment program.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

why qt? if the whole main tank as it, why not treat just the main tank and not buying extra stuff for the qt. qt are great and serve their purpose, but from what I remember about ich, the tank has it; not just the fish. if you qt, treat and re-introduce to the main tank, they will get it again.

Which is why you let the main tank go fishless for 6-8 weeks - to kill the parasite. And if you performed hyposalinity in the main tank, the shrimp/crabs/etc will all die. Any treatment that kills ich will kill everything else in the tank too... except the fish.

 

[roka64]

Also, a QT is a much more easily controlled tank.

 

[melosu58]

why qt?

An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

 

[Tommy Gun]

4. Will the addition of a cleaner shrimp help (not solve) the ich problem in the main tank?

I'm under the impression that hyposalinity treatments are best done without any inverts present. I also believe that "cleaner" shrimp or even cleaner fish cannot make a huge impact on Ich once it is visible to our eyes because it is buried and well protected. In fact, I believe that while the parasite it in its white spot stage, it is also very well protected against medications, including copper. Anyways, IMHO, the addition of a 'cleaner' is probably more of a preventative measure rather than a 'cure' and probably not worth the risk of having one in a q-tank during hyposalinity treatments.

Parasites cannot live/reproduce without a host so if the tank is kept fallow for 30 days the population should die out.

I definitely agree and would also point out that, for the most part, our fish have a strong ability to 'fight off' parasites like Ich all on their own if they are healthy enough, which means three things IMO:

1. In theory, it does make sense to quarantine only one fish for an ich treatment even though the parasite is obviously present in the display tank.
2. All treatments impose some level of stress on our livestock so treating a display tank can mean a previously healthy fish becomes a good target for ich and/or our inverts suffer.
   • In general, it is the inverts - to include beneficial hitchhikers - that make a difference between approaches to treating ich in a FW and SW tank. (i.e. it is less risky to treat an entire FW display tank)
   • Despite the name, FW and SW ich are different and I believe that the common myth that states "ich is always present" stems from the fact that SW ich can survive for a longer period of time without a host. Point being, treating for a long time is good and once done, treating for longer can only be better...that is, assuming the fish can handle it.
3. While performing treatments, you will do yourself and your fish a huge favor by focusing intently keeping them as healthy as possible. For example, even if it means that you have to buy more medicine or spend more money on salt, it is a good idea to continue with water changes and perhaps even do more than you otherwise might.