1 Dead Fish and I noticed something odd

[Cherry Barb]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the beset of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
Well, yesterday one of my zebra danios had odd "injuries" for lack of a better word near his tail fin. On one side he looked raw and on the other he had a small split in his body. I wasn't sure what to do so I moved him to the hospital and treated with Melafix. Alas, he was dead this morning.
After removing him from the tank I noticed my SAE's are wiggling into the gravel and up against the rock I have in the center of the tank. I have never seen this behavior before.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

All my values are 0. Although the nitrates do occasionally spike to .25ppm. The tank is 78 degrees and the PH is a constant 6.8

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

It is a 20gal tank and has been up for about 2 years.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304)

I use a Penguin 175 Bio Wheel Filter and I change the cartridges every 2 to 4 weeks.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are there current sizes?

2 Zebra Danios, 5 Cories, 2 SAE, 1 small common plec, 4 cherry barbs, 5 cardinal tetras 4 Rosy Barbs and 1 Dwarf Honey Gourami. I know the tank is densely populated, but I take very good care of my tanks so I have never before had a problem.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

I do a minimum 25% water change every week (Usually Sat am) and yes I vaccuum the gravel each time.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

I've had all the fish for over a year except the Gourami which I moved there a few months ago and the plec I bought about 8 weeks ago.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

I recently planted the tank. I used cabomba and vals that I got from another member and 2 cryptoceneses and several dwarf saggitaria from my fav lfs. The plec destroyed most of the cabomba and they have eaten the crypto and some of the sagitaria.

I think that's all. Although, my female Rosy Barbs always look pregnant. Is this common? I wouldn't have thought anything about that, but with the danio dying and the SAE acting funny, I'm not sure. hopefully, I'm completely overreacting.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep my eyes open for advice.

Rose

 

[LittlePuff]

Sounds like external parasites.

Kim

 

[Menagerie]

I know the tank is densely populated, but I take very good care of my tanks so I have never before had a problem.

The only problem is this illness will quickly spread.

Although, my female Rosy Barbs always look pregnant. Is this common?

They could be gravid, which means they are carrying eggs, but you should notice a time when they do not look this way.

Try looking through these sites:
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm
http://www.aqualink.com/disease/sdisease.html
http://fish.mongabay.com/diseases.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/fishdisho.htm

You said the danio looked raw--could he have rubbed himself raw? Or did it look like something ate him?

 

[Cherry Barb]

Hi Menagerie:

To be honest when I first saw the little guy, another danio was picking on him. And I thought he looked like he had been bit. The only problem is, I can't imagine what in that tank could have bit him. He did initially seem to respond to the Melafix when I treated him, but of course it was a futile attempt.

I did just read those websites you posted. I don't see anything like those parasitic descriptions on my fish. How do I confirm? Do I treat to be safe or not treat until I confirm? I'm especially concerned about my fragile cardinals. I understand treatments can be very harmful to them.

I'm so confused I guess because I've never had a really serious problem before. Also, if it is parasitic where would they have come from?

And the Rosy Barbs have looked pregnant for weeks now. The males are constantly going at each other and the females I think enjoy the attention. If they are pregnant how long before they drop the eggs?

Oh, I'm so confused! 8O So, now what do I do?

Rose

 

[Cherry Barb]

Hey Menagerie on more thing:

I'm re-reading on those links again. One thing I keep seeing is that most of these parasites "cannot" be removed from the tank like they can the fish. AM I going to need to dismantle this tank and start from scratch? I'm going to visit my lfs today for sure. I just want to save my fish if possible. And trust me, I'll do whatever it takes. I'll keep looking for your reply. And thanks a bunch!

Rose

 

[Menagerie]

The males are constantly going at each other and the females I think enjoy the attention. If they are pregnant how long before they drop the eggs?

First, a little biology! Your barbs are not pregnant! They are carrying eggs, which must be fertilized by the males. The females will never carry little fishies As for how long until they drop, I'm not sure. I'm sure you can Google barbs and breeding

To be honest when I first saw the little guy, another danio was picking on him. And I thought he looked like he had been bit. The only problem is, I can't imagine what in that tank could have bit him.

2 Zebra Danios, 5 Cories, 2 SAE, 1 small common plec, 4 cherry barbs, 5 cardinal tetras 4 Rosy Barbs and 1 Dwarf Honey Gourami.

If the danio was dieing, it would not surprise me if another fish began eating it and then the danio started in.

He did initially seem to respond to the Melafix when I treated him, but of course it was a futile attempt.

He may have responded to a new, less stressful environment.

I don't see anything like those parasitic descriptions on my fish. How do I confirm? Do I treat to be safe or not treat until I confirm? I'm especially concerned about my fragile cardinals. I understand treatments can be very harmful to them.

Just wait and watch. I am not convinced this is a parasite.

After removing him from the tank I noticed my SAE's are wiggling into the gravel and up against the rock I have in the center of the tank. I have never seen this behavior before.

Is this continuing? Are any of the other fish flashing? Flashing is a sign of parasites, such as ich. If the ich is there (and it always is, but usually the fish's immune system takes care of it) and is only affecting the gills, you will not see it.

One thing I keep seeing is that most of these parasites "cannot" be removed from the tank like they can the fish.

As I just said, ich is always there. Do not panick!

I would not treat this tank with any meds at the moment. However, it will not hurt to begin raising the temp up to 86 degrees and add some aquarium salt (2 table spoons for now, and depending on what is going on, you may need to bring the salt level up to 1 teaspoon per gal). With the higher temp, make sure there is plenty of surface agitation, because oxygen does not dissolve as well in warmer water.
What kind of pleco do you have? Some plecos have lots of problems with salt. I recently treated a tank with a rubber lip pleco for 4 weeks and all the fish were fine.

 

[FawnN]

I use a Penguin 175 Bio Wheel Filter and I change the cartridges every 2 to 4 weeks

Why are you changing your filter so often? Everytime your changing your filter cartridge you are also throwing out your bacteria colony.

You do realize that almost all of your bacteria lives on your filter bed, right? All you really need to do to clean your cartridge is swish it in the water you removed during your water change.

And IMO, unless you have tons of guck on your filter cartridge and even after you do a good swishing during water changes and it is still clogged, then and only then would I replace it. Besides, unless you are trying to move meds from your tank, there is no reason why you would need a new cartridge, because the activiated carbons only last up to 7 days anyways.

And as for the parasites/ich, all our fish have them and it isn't until they get stressed for whatever reason does the diseases surface.

 

[Cherry Barb]

Hey guys here goes:

Is this continuing? Are any of the other fish flashing?

I haven't seen the flashing today. I have not seen any other fish doing this at all.

it will not hurt to begin raising the temp up to 86 degrees and add some aquarium salt (2 table spoons for now, and depending on what is going on, you may need to bring the salt level up to 1 teaspoon per gal).

Ok, I can raise the temp easily, but I already add salt to the water when I do changes. How quickly do I add this extra 2 tablespoons and I should I adjust for what I usually add when I change water?

What kind of pleco do you have?

This one is a common pleco, my fancy one is in my shark tank.

Why are you changing your filter so often? Everytime your changing your filter cartridge you are also throwing out your bacteria colony.

Well, as I said in my earlier post, this tank is pretty densely populated and yeah, that filter MUST be changed that often. Don't get me wrong, I swish each cleaning, but when it needs to be changed I change it. As for the bacteria colony, that's why I use the BIO Wheel System. I only change the filter, not the wheel.

Also, I was at my lfs today asking questions about this subject. The sales person got really upset with me because I do water changes and gravel vacs each week. I told her it was necessary. If I don't do that change & vac this tank goes down hill quickly. For some reason she couldn't understand that. This isn't the usual person i speak to because she has given bad info before. But....Any suggestions on that? I know their other experts know me and they know I do weekly vacs. Matter of fact 2 of them suggested it. Isn't that weird that one would get that upset? Well anyhow, I'll be looking for more responses. I appreciate all the good advice from you guys I can get.

Rose

 

[Menagerie]

Go ahead and add the extra salt. It will not raise the osmolarity that much.
Since your tank is so densely populated, you may want to consider a Fluval 104, or another small canister. You could fill up all the baskets with ceramic media and with the large sponge, you would be able to better rinse it. It would probably pay for itself while you save on filter cartridges!

As for the wacko in the LFS--

 

[Cherry Barb]

Thanks Menagerie, I needed that little pick up. I will raise my salt and I will look into that other filter. All my fishies will move into larger tanks in the spring, but I am always looking to improve my systems for their health.

Now, if I can just get that guy to grab the chick at the lfs,

Rose

 

[Menagerie]

Keep us updated on the fish and the chick