5 Orandas turning black!!!

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I am using the API test kit, where we test the water in a test tube. I use Prime as well. The only thing I can remember adding was the UV Filter, due to an algae issue, but that was sorted in 3 days.

We added melafix to help them with the burns. :(

We have turned off the UV Filter for several weeks since. The issue with the blackness started 2-3 weeks ago and has been getting worse.

I got home just now and noticed that several of the fish were sitting at the bottom and yesterday the temperature in the tank was 20 degrees, but this evening it showed as 25 degrees.
I have no idea what changed since last night.
 
I've done a water change and added zip lock bags of ice to the aquarium. We've also removed the lid of the tank to let it air out.
I've never seen anything this crazy before, and have had goldfish for several years now. :( :(
 
Are you able to post the values for ammonia, nitrite, ph, nitrate in the lead up to this? I think that will help.

Also are you running a heater at all? Just checking if the change could be due to a faulty heater.
 
Nitrates, Ammonia are zero, per the API test tube tests. pH is at 7.2 now as I've not added the pH down.

We do not run a heater as they are goldfish and don't need heaters. So, really, I'm not quite sure what changed as we haven't really changed anything :(
 
Nitrates, Ammonia are zero, per the API test tube tests. pH is at 7.2 now as I've not added the pH down.

We do not run a heater as they are goldfish and don't need heaters. So, really, I'm not quite sure what changed as we haven't really changed anything :(

Many thanks - it all helps. Ph 7.2 sounds fine, was that as high as it got?

I assume it was nitrite was 0 and nitrate was something?

Yes, odd then on the temp increase. I've only had that sort of jump with warmer weather / heat wave.

And no chance any chemicals could have mistakenly gotten into the tank? Water used for pwc's is good? Just crossing them off.
 
And no chance any chemicals could have mistakenly gotten into the tank? Water used for pwc's is good? Just crossing them off.[/QUOTE]

The pH went up to 8 last week, which was when we really started to panic and added pH down and all the other stuff.
I think it's probably the weather as it has been quite hot (as hot as New Zealand can get).

I honestly can't think of anything else right now, as we haven't added anything or even changed their food.

~Aarrgghhh~ It really is very painful to watch them struggle :(
 
And no chance any chemicals could have mistakenly gotten into the tank? Water used for pwc's is good? Just crossing them off.

The pH went up to 8 last week, which was when we really started to panic and added pH down and all the other stuff.
I think it's probably the weather as it has been quite hot (as hot as New Zealand can get).

I honestly can't think of anything else right now, as we haven't added anything or even changed their food.

~Aarrgghhh~ It really is very painful to watch them struggle :([/QUOTE]

Bad news, hopefully it has passed.

Yes, very hot in Perth now as well. Probably a month and bit ago the temp shot up. I think a pic will still help if possible?

One last one, nothing cleaned lately in the tank it sounds?

It does sound suspicious for the tap water, if it spiked in ph then perhaps it spiked in something else? Has it done it before? What do you use to treat tap water for water changes (or whatever you use for pwc's)?

It sounds like now the tap and tank water are reading 0 for ammonia?
 
Honestly... thanks guys for your replies, really appreciate it...but this thing is driving me almost mental.

We've never lost a single goldfish in the last 5 years, but this is beyond my understanding. The tank is relatively new, 1 year old, but the fishes aren't.

We also moved the tank out of the sunlight as we had a sudden battle with algae, and that's when we introduced the UV Filter.

Now I've got a bag of ice floating to cool them down gradually. The temperature is at 24 still though :(
 
In my experience, if the ammonia gets so high it 'burns' the fish a sore reddening of the skin looking like a rash will appear before any scaring appears as black tissue. Even having witnessed fish in transport bags affected by high ammonia and suffering this reddening, I have never seen black scar tissue. The only time I have seen black scar tissue, the fish had recovered from a severe bacterial infection and ulceration.

So, have your fishs' fins deteriorated at all? High ammonia almost always causes shredding of the fins. Have they lost scales? Ammonia burns often cause scale loss as the skin is damaged underneath. As the health of your fish deteriorated significally? Are they breathing more rapidly (ammonia poisoning always affects the gills.... if it can damage skin, it is going to wreck the gill lamelle)

If your ammonia had climbed so high as to cause burns you would have noticed severe distress in your fish and at least some bodily damage and possibly death - plus, you would have tested very high for ammonia!

I am of the opinion that this is due to colour change, which occurs a lot in goldfish varieties.
 
Hi again!

Ok, all of your fish are exhibiting obvious signs of chemical burns (including the moor). Most typically, this is caused by high ammonia levels but it can be caused by other chemicals as well. Definitely not normal color change but the result of something amiss in the tank. Your ph is not a big issue right now and actually I would prefer to see it in the mid to high 7's but we are not going to worry about this because this is not the cause of your issues. High KH and GH (hard, alkaline water) is actually the best for goldfish health and water would have to be excessively alkaline to even create minor issues. Acidic water is much greater concern and is responsible for much greater problems.

So, let's start with basics. What actually are you using to test your water (liquid or strips)? What are your exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph for both your tank and your tap? What additives do you use (brand of water conditioner, any other chemicals added such as salt, etc)? Have you added or changed anything (décor, substrate, filter media, etc)? Used any chemicals or sprays in this room or nearby rooms (aerosols, flea products, carpet cleaners, disinfectants, etc)?

I saw that you mentioned melafix (this will not help and may be creating further problems) and adding live plants. Live plants will not affect anything unless you dipped them in something caustic before adding them. Did you add the melafix before the burns or afterwards?

Once we have a better idea of what is going on here, we can make further suggestions! :)

And you have the nerve to advise me not to make diagnoses until I have all the facts!

How can anything be obvious when you haven't even seen the fish? You don't seem to accept that goldfish have periodic colour changes, despite it being a well known fact. Why is Melafix not going to help and why might it cause more problems. If there are aerosol products used in the house, what conclusion are you going to draw? Do you know how these products might affect fish?

Please make any further posts relative to the OPs original question
 
We upgraded them to the 300L tank last year... and the water temperature is 20 degrees, ammonia and nitrates are zero.

The pH levels did increase very alkaline (7.8), but added pH down and also added plants.

But, the problem seems to be getting worse everyday.

7.8 is fine for goldfish varieties and also for BB in the filter!
 
There was a note at the start one black moor was slowly turning greyish?

To the OP: thanks for putting up with the questions, I honestly think a photo would help. Is this possible at all?
 
Hiya,

The fins haven't deteriorated, and they have started sitting at the bottom which I haven't seen them do except at night.

I did phone home to check on how they were doing, and they seem to be swimming about since I dropped the ice bags in the water. The temperature has dropped to 23 degrees, which is really odd, as the water has always been between 18-20 maximum.

I have had some fishes change colour, but it was very gradual and never so radical.
 
There was a note at the start one black moor was slowly turning greyish?

To the OP: thanks for putting up with the questions, I honestly think a photo would help. Is this possible at all?

As they mature, black moors can go from a solid black colour to a more silvery-grey colour. It is reversion to the natural colour of the genotypical Carassius auratus. Temperature and diet have a lot to do with colour changes, but the genetics of domestic goldfish does of course play a huge role.

Black is probably the hardest colour to fix. I buy and sell 'red and black' goldfish and fantails and I can guarantee that those fish will lose most of the black colouration as they mature. It seems that black moors retain the black colour the longest, but some even turn orange as they mature. All goldfish varieties start there life as brown fry. With the exception of calico varieties, they then develop through black, yellow and orange, with white also thrown in for good measure.

I would say in this instance that the increase in temperature has had a strong effect. I have seen it many times.
 
I will put up a picture this evening, once I get home so that you can see the extent of colouration change.
 
As they mature, black moors can go from a solid black colour to a more silvery-grey colour. It is reversion to the natural colour of the genotypical Carassius auratus. Temperature and diet have a lot to do with colour changes, but the genetics of domestic goldfish does of course play a huge role.

Black is probably the hardest colour to fix. I buy and sell 'red and black' goldfish and fantails and I can guarantee that those fish will lose most of the black colouration as they mature. It seems that black moors retain the black colour the longest, but some even turn orange as they mature. All goldfish varieties start there life as brown fry. With the exception of calico varieties, they then develop through black, yellow and orange, with white also thrown in for good measure.

I would say in this instance that the increase in temperature has had a strong effect. I have seen it many times.

Thanks again, it might be nothing, but the changes in their behaviour... would that relate to colour changes?
It could be the temp, but I'm bafffled as to why the temperature rose...would the UV filter cause that?
 
Thanks again, it might be nothing, but the changes in their behaviour... would that relate to colour changes?
It could be the temp, but I'm bafffled as to why the temperature rose...would the UV filter cause that?

I don't think the UV would cause that, at least not normally. I have an internal UV and a UV that came with the canister filter and haven't noticed a big difference in temp.
 
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