a moral question about euthanasia

[Catalina]

For reasons that I just posted in the thread about "fish with a bent spine", I currently have a dwarf gourami who is in bad shape because of what i think is a parasite. I am not sure the name of the parasite, or if that is what it postitively is. It was brought on by excessively high nitrite levels, and matches the symptoms that i have heard mean a parasite. I put 1tbsp of salt in the tank several days ago, and the temperature is at 82 degrees. He perked up a little bit after i put the salt in, but i think i took action too late, because now he appears to be dying. He is just lying on the bottom of the tank, occasionally drifting around, and having trouble righting himself if he is on his side.
Onto the subject of this post: I cannot be sure whether or not he is in pain. Personally, i do believe he is, but i'm also not sure how strong his will to live is. I am not sure if he will still be alive when i wake up, but I was wondering about some of your opinions on this subject. i entitled this a MORAL question, because i already know the method that i would use to euthanize him. i am just wondering about the opinions of other people on detecting signs of pain and will for life in another species of animal. Also looking for opinions on what the responsibilities are of a person that takes an entire miniature environment into their control.

 

[SixFootDaisy]

I believe any living thing experiences pain.

My dwarf gourami was on the bottom of the tank the day after I brought him home. He was still alive, but looked like he was dying. I swooped him up in my net and swooshed him gently around the tank a few times. And you know what? He's alive

Did I save him from the perils of death? Maybe, who knows.

if you're in question about his life, and you think he'd be better off dead, [let's face it, sometimes this does happen] put him in a dish filled with ICE COLD water. [Make sure it is COLD] Tropical fish cannot survive in cold water, and he would die. It will be quick, but heartbreaking.

Do what YOU think is right.

Goodluck.

 

[Guest]

Also looking for opinions on what the responsibilities are of a person that takes an entire miniature environment into their control.

And the best answer is:

Do what YOU think is right.

 

[Allivymar]

If you do decide to put the little guy down Catalina, you may want to look at this page: http://www.bettasrus.com/disease/euthanasia.htm .

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I've never enjoyed having to do it-- but in instances where the fish is in obvious pain (and I do believe fish can feel pain) or there is no hope for cure/recovery, it's easier for me and my conscience to put it out of its misery, rather than watching it suffer.

 

[wabyrd]

put him in a dish filled with ICE COLD water. [Make sure it is COLD] Tropical fish cannot survive in cold water, and he would die. It will be quick

I've read many times that chilling the fish is stressful. I've used the vodka method listed on the linked page above. This method is very quick. It is supposed to be the least stressful for the fish. I still hate doing it though. It is better than watching the fish suffer though.

 

[jasonit]

It's never a good thing to have to kill a fish, but it is sometimes necessary. I don't think they suffer in the same sense as higher animals, but I do think they have a "fear response" that resembles pain. I don't think they should be left in a state of apparent suffering. I have read that the best method is to remove the fish's head with a sharp knife. Although it sounds violent and horrible, it is the fastest method. Other methods require the fish to breathe poison or freeze to death. Many folks don't have the stomach for that, but I think it is the most humane.

 

[Catalina]

Thank you all so much for your words of support and advice. When I woke up today, he was just lying on the bottom of the tank, still breathing but otherwise totally motionless. I tried moving him around with the net, but he just flipped around and ended up back on his side. This evening, he was still in the same position. I decided that there was not a chance that he was going to recover, and that the best thing would be too make sure he was not in any pain. I am not even sure if he was concious at this point, because although he was still breathing, he was entirely unresponsive. I used the cold water method, and his breathing slowed. It was quite clear that he was no longer concious, so I put the water in the freezer. I would have used the vodka method, but i had none, and i read somewhere that this can be stressful as well? I don't know, there seem to be many different opinions about the best way of of doing it. He did not seem stressed at any point during the cold water process though. I hope he was not in any pain.

 

[Concerned_Citiz]

Personally, I think you did what was best for the little guy. It is amazing the compassion living things can feel for each other. I read this thought provoking line over and over:

the responsibilities are of a person that takes an entire miniature environment into their control.

You know, you are very right about that. Sometimes, people dont realize that they are electively taking partial control of nature. It is great for learning, a pasttime, and even for entertainment but the fact still remains that we are the ones in control. And when the toughest descision has to be made, you have to be sure you did the right thing. And I am sure you did the right thing.

Best of luck to you in the future.

Ryan

 

[Vicshaw]

i had 2 kill my fish so i put it in the freezer.

 

[d9hp]

i had 2 kill my fish so i put it in the freezer.

Something about that just does not sound really sweet, and better for the fish. Actually, I have put down over 5 fish. I put them all in a bucket of ice water, and they were out real fast

 

[Concerned_Citiz]

Wait wait wait....vic...did you say you just put your fish in some tap water and threw them in the freezer until they were dead? Some part of this doesn't sound right? That's gotta be one of the slowest ways to kill a fish aside from just letting it die on it's own. Am I misunderstanding you or are you just not to keen on better ways to put down a fish? Especially how you said you had "2 kill my fish," like no big deal...c'mon

 

[Guest]

Putting a fish in some water, then setting it in the frezer is ONE of many accepted ways of euthaizing fish. The theory goes that the fishes metabolism just slows down painlessly and they eventually "go to sleep" and pass away.

To all on this thread:

Even if a method sounds inhumane to you, let's try not to be judgemental of others. This board is supposed to be friendly, lets just keep it that way, please.

 

[fishfreek]

A faster way of doing it would be to prepair some ice water in a bowl.

Put some tap water in a bowl and then add a fair amount of ice cubes.

Get the water to a point where its down in the 40's range and add the fish that is needing to be 'put to sleep'

Within 1 minute the fish will be motionless.

Its amazing how fast the fish will go.

 

[Catalina]

Yes, fishfreek, that is the method I used. When I was sure that he was completely unconcious, I put him in the freezer just to make sure he would die. I really doubt he felt a thing a minute after I put him in the water with the icecubes.
Again, thanks for the support from everyone on this thread. I hope some people have learned something from it.