African Cichlids dying

[AfroCich89]

I have a 15 gallon tank with 3 African Cichlids in the tank. All of which recently died. I was very upset about them dying because they were very special and unique looking. They started dying off after I did a water change of about 25% (as recommended by other cichlid owners I know). After the first died off I went to get the water tested and was told I had very high and dangerous levels of ammonia and was told to purchase Ammo-Lock. I have heard mixed things about Ammo-Lock but I also currently use Ammonia Clear (tablet form) to try to fix the problem. The ammonia levels are still high and I would like to purchase cichlids to replace my others that have died. Can someone please help me figure this problem out? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all.

[DragonFish71]

Ok, first question : how long has the tank been set up? You could have a cycle going, in which case you should not add fish. Fish like 0 ammonia, anything over .25 will do damage and kill them.

2) What kind of filter? 3 africans can overpower a filter with waste. Especially if the filter is "rated" for that size of tank. Companies tend to expand the truth on filter ratings. A filter rated for 15g might not actually properly filter a 15g tank.


3) How big were the africans? Yeah, size does matter. The bigger they are, the bigger the poop.

Now, aside from those questions, here's a few points. A 15g is way too small for any cichlid except dwarf cichlids, and even then they need room to roam. A ram cichlid (GBR), one of the smallest of the dwarf species gets to about 3 inches and needs at least 10g per fish. Africans get 4-6 inches, some larger. They are also poop machines like any cichlid. IMHO if you want africans, get a larger tank. Another point, don't use chemicals to control your water parameters. It doesn't solve the problem, only hides it. Water changes, often and treated with dechlor are what you need.

[AfroCich89]

So maybe just 2 cichlids?

The filter is the one that came with the tank so the filtration issue may be the problem, but before I did my water change the cichlids were fine. They were eating properly (I never overfed)

The tank has been set up for about a month and half now. The cichlids weren't that big. The biggest one I believe was around 2 inches, if that, and the store that I bought the cichlids from said the ones I have wouldn't get more than 4 inches long.

[DragonFish71]

Ok, a month and a half, but did you cycle it? And then if the filter is stock, it's probably too small.

Again down to, 15g is too small for africans. Think about it like this, 2 fish, 4 inches long in a tank 24 inches long x 12 inches tall x 12 inches deep (We won't even get into the fact that most fish stores lie about things like that). That really doesn't give them much room to do their fishy thing. That would be like the 1 inch per gallon rule. In that case a 16 inch oscar can live in a 16 inch tank. A 6 foot male human at 200 pounds can live in a small dog crate. Yeah, live, not be happy.

[AfroCich89]

Yes I did cycle it. I let the tank run for about 2 or 3 days before I put anything in there. The cichlids seemed to be happy. They were very territorial, but that's natural for them. They would swim around and 'play tag' with each other. Nothing seemed to be wrong until I did the water change. When I did the water change, I only changed 25% and treated that water before putting it in the tank.

[DragonFish71]

2-3 days is not a cycle. That's just letting the water filter. Cycling is letting the beneficial bacteria form in the tank. Here's some reading.

Nitrogen Cycle
Tips and tricks for your fastest fishless cycle!
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...tml#post983258

[AfroCich89]

I did add this bacteria that says on the bottle it is a biological filtration booster, called Stress Zyme+. Can you tell me anything about that?

[DragonFish71]

IMHO those "bacterial" additives are for crap except for when cycling a tank. I've only found 2 that I would recommend for that, Nutrifin cycle and Seachem Stability. I would never promote a product that states it will help keep your tank clean, only proper maintenance will do that.

Here's why.
I set up our 55g and 20g in 12/2008. It was a gift from my fiance and his family. Tanks were going great, did their cycle, slowly added my fish, tada, beautiful tank. I saw that same product and thought "oh, ok, sweet". At the time my fiance was having more surgeries to mend a broken femur from an accident. I did my water changes weekly, added the crap then started noticing my water quality went bad. The tank, smelled. Bad, like a public bathroom at a stadium (yeah, I said it stank right?) Anyways, it took a full week and a half of water changes to correct that problem. In that time, the ammonia skyrocketed and we lost 4 pictus cats, a jewel cichlid and darn near lost the others in the 55 and in the 20 we lost all our bettas. I only used that product in those 2 tanks, our 10g and the 29g were fine. After talking to my LFS (one I trust) and doing research I found that those products aren't what they claim. (shocking huh?) It seems (and if I had of had half a brain, I would have figured this out) that the bacteria don't survive that well between culturing, bottling, shipping and storage then shelving. So in effect, I was pouring dead bacteria into my tanks which caused cycling to start all over again. The 2 I use for starting new tanks (mentioned above) came highly recommended for doing that and only that.

Seriously, all you need for a healthy tank is to get your tank cycled and a good water conditioner like Prime. No need for ammonia removers, water clearers or anything else unless you have to medicate for illness. The rest are for crap

[AfroCich89]

So I did a complete overhaul on the tank and changed all of the water from the tank, basically starting completely over which sucks, but I feel it is necessary. I have tested the water and it seems to be fine. The ammonia level is at about a .50-1.00 (which I realize is still bad), but seeing as how it has only been running for about 5 hours now since I did the overhaul. Hopefully this will help with the ammonia. I am going to give it about 1-2 days of running to get it going again.

Think the overhaul was a good idea?

[DragonFish71]

If I read your first post right, there are no longer fish in the tank? If that is the case, let the ammonia rise, that is part of the cycle. If you can find it, get pure ammonia, it shouldn't have bubbles (soaps) or any scent other than the ammonia. I believe you can get it at Home Depot, maybe ACE. Most people suggest that for fishless cycling. I prefer getting a bottle of Seachem Stability and a few raw shrimp to cycle my tanks with, or even dead feeder goldfish from your LFS.

Remember, let it run through the cycle. I posted links above to help you with that. It doesn't happen over night. Believe me, I can understand being impatient, I have 2 115g tanks I'm working on setting up right now and I'm going crazy waiting for my stands.

[AfroCich89]

Someone also suggested a putting a guppy (live) or two in the tank. Would that be helpful?

[mattrox]

I don't mean to sound blunt, but have you read the threads on cycling? A cycle tackes 4-6 weeks. Basically you just started your cycle from scratch by doing the overhaul. It is a little late to ask if it was a bad idea after you have done it. That is what the forum is for, bouncing around ideas before you do something.

If you have fish in in the tank you will need to do PWC's daily to keep the ammonia (and eventually nitrites) in check. Test and change the water, test and change the water, might need to do it twice a day too.

And you actually haven't said what type of cichlids you got.

You asked for help in the first thread then get given specific advice saying that 2-3 days is not a cycle, then ask again if 2 - 3 days will be fine. Are you reading what has been written? Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it is wrong. I'm sorry if I seem rude, but it doesn't seem like you have listened to any advice from very experienced and knowledgable people.

[AfroCich89]

Okay I understand you don't mean to be rude, but I did plenty of research and when my cichlids began dying, i was confused because I had done everything the way I saw online to do. I also found people I know that have cichlids and they all said I did the right thing when I first set up the tank.

As well, don't take this the wrong way, but in the topic title it says AFRICAN Cichlids.

I have already done (with exception to the 4-6 week cycling) everything that was told to me on here. Yes, I have read the threads on cycling, and have a basic knowledge of the nitrogen cycle (due to the Biology classes I have taken before). What I was asking was, if the overhaul was the right thing to do? I was told to change the water (25%) when perform tank cleanings monthly. Upon doing this the ammonia levels rose, and I was confused as to what could have cause this considering I did everything that was told to me for cleanings.

Now my question is, if you have been reading, what to do now to speed up the cycle. I have read things that will help speed up the cycle, and either I read somewhere or someone told me that placing live guppies in the tank will help with the process seeing as how guppies are indestructible fish.

[mattrox]

My point is, that if you did your research you would know about fishless cycling.

You would also be able to give the name of your African cichlids. Let me give you and example. Kribebsis, Afra, lelupi, shell-dwellers, Auloncara, Zebras, Tropheos, Astotilapia, fryeri, acei, jewel etc. There is a big difference between ALL of these fish and they are african. Just as an example most fish from Lake Malwai will need a minimum 4ft tank, even small fish as they require territory, which a 15 gal just doesn't have,

Take what the LFS says with a grain of salt. Unless you have 2 shell-dwellers or perhaps julidochromis you tank is just not suitable for African cichlids.

During your cycle you will have to do water changes very often if you have fish in the tank.

No fish is indestructable.

To speed up the cycle you will need to get used filter media from a trusted source and add it to your filter.

Here is a link for you.
Cookie Cutter - 10-gallons

[AfroCich89]

Ahh now I see what you mean. Well I know for a fact I had a Kenyi and one Acei. I wasn't too sure about the specific species of the other one because I hadn't seen another one like him. He had an orange base with black spots with a sort of white underbelly.

They seemed happy in the tank because they were not that big. Granted, the were getting big, but didn't seem to be agitated by the fact they had to share the space with each other. They eventually got acclimated to the tank and set up their own territory. In fact the Kenyi, I believe, was female and had shared a territory with the unknown species.

[mattrox]

If you like africans you could do shell dwellers in your tank. Don't get a guppy. Do it properly with a fishless cycle. Make sure you have ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits. Not the test strips, they are unreliable. If really want to keep Malawi cichlids you will need a 4ft tank minimum so you can keep 1 male and 2 females of each species as a minimum.

[AfroCich89]

So I believe it has been about 2 weeks and the ammonia levels are still not good. I have done everything I have read and still no luck. Can someone please help me out here?

I really don't want to give up on this because I know this is just part of the process.

[tmcgee]

Be patient. How much are you dosing with? What are you dosing? Did you go with pure ammonia or are you using something dead? Can you detail your cycling process a bit so we can give some better advice?

[AfroCich89]

Well my cichlids died and I was going to use them, but I took them out so now there is nothing. Should I try to find raw shrimp or go and get a sacrifice fish and put him in there?

[mattrox]

Get some ammonia from the hardware store and add ammonia until you get 4ppm. Keep testing the water until the nitrites show up. Then you know you are getting there. It will take a couple more weeks for the nitrites to drop to 0ppm and you will then be seeing nitrates on your test. A cycle can take up to 6 weeks.