Am I Incompetent?

[JackSpadesSI]

I have a 10-gallon tank that's been running for seven weeks now. It is fully cycled (with SeaChem Stability, initially). Sadly, that tank has killed a lot of fish in that time:

- 4 Neon Tetras: 3 due to New Tank Syndrome (I didn't know better) and 1 for reasons unknown.
- 2 Otos: I assume they starved, but I'm not sure. I offered zucchini and algae wafers, but they didn't try either.
- 1 Molly: He lost some scales on his back, then more scales on his back, and then he died. I assume he had some sort of disease.
- 1 Guppy: He was absolutely fine, and then he was dead. This one was the saddest because a) he had a name, and b) I didn't see it coming.

Also, I've lost ~9 guppy fry along the way but I rationalize that because some fry were bound to not make it.

Currently, my tank has:

- 2 Guppies, Adult
- 3 Neon Tetras
- 1 Oto
- 1 African Dwarf Frog
- 9 Guppies, Fry

I realize that this tank is overstocked with those guppy fry (6 weeks old) but I'll be moving them to a new tank on Saturday. I didn't plan on having them, so that's why the tank is so full (I returned their mom). I believe they're all female, so they shouldn't reproduce in that tank - I just hope they haven't already done anything with the adult males in the tank!

I've been doing weekly cleanings: 2-3x 50% water changes (new water is treated with Prime) while vacuuming up debris from the gravel. The filtration is in good working order. I sort of overfeed the fish, but only because the fry couldn't compete well for food unless there was an abundance.

That's a little over a 50% mortality rate. Am I incompetent? Am I doing something terribly wrong?

 

[bigsky_25]

quick lesson I learned being a newbie is that over feeding causes ammonia levels to sky rocket.. I'm currently getting my tank back in order. Let every one know what your water tests out.. ph, ammonia, and nitrites... its a good place to start.. also learned not to suck things out of the gravel cause thats where a majority of your good bactiera lives... but I'm a newbie here!

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Don't vacuum the gravel? I honestly didn't know that!

I did know about overfeeding causing ammonia, but I figured that beat starvation of the fry. Once the fry are in their new tank I will feed each tank properly.

 

[jenatron]

Your filter media is where the majority of the bacteria is. The rest of the tank holds some, but not as much. If your levels are bad, then you shouldn't vacuum the gravel, because it can cause a spike, which would make matters worse. But with good levels and regular maintenance it shouldn't be an issue. But it is true, you need to know your levels regularly (weekly) to know if you are in fact incompetent. (JK about that last part! )

 

[TraceyB4602]

quick lesson I learned being a newbie is that over feeding causes ammonia levels to sky rocket.. I'm currently getting my tank back in order. Let every one know what your water tests out.. ph, ammonia, and nitrites... its a good place to start.. also learned not to suck things out of the gravel cause thats where a majority of your good bactiera lives... but I'm a newbie here!

You can vacuum gravel, after it is cycled. During the cycling process it is better to leave it be and let the bacteria establish.

To help we need to know your parameters.
Ph, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates.

You say that your tank is fully cycled but the bacteria additive will not do that alone. So please let us know your parameters so we can determine if it is really cycled.

Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium

 

[Durvish]

A good middle ground for cleaning/not cleaning the gravel is to do a partial clean like maybe a quarter to half the gravel at every pwc. This will allow the bacteria to repopulate between pwcs.

 

[ChelseaLake]

Aww, I'm sorry to hear that you've lost so many fish.

I wouldn't vacuum all of the gravel, even in a cycled tank (unless there was a parasite or something). 25-50 percent is all I vac in one pwc.

Overfeeding could definitely account for so many losses. They need less than what you think!

Good luck!

 

[OhNeil1969]

I've been doing weekly cleanings: 2-3x 50% water changes (new water is treated with Prime) while vacuuming up debris from the gravel. The filtration is in good working order. I sort of overfeed the fish, but only because the fry couldn't compete well for food unless there was an abundance.

That's a little over a 50% mortality rate. Am I incompetent? Am I doing something terribly wrong?

I've found that fry can get enough food with normal feedings. My molly fry have thrived without changing the amount of food I give at each feeding. The only thing I did was grind up some of the flakes into a finer/smaller size. The advice you've already received about vacuuming the gravel is good. I've found that vacuuming your gravel a section at a time is the easiest.

Just as a side note: you didn't mention water parameters so we don't know if something else is going on. The test kit you use can make a big difference between healthy fish and a die-off. Many people on this site, including myself, recommend using the API Master Test Kit. From personal experience I've found that those test strips are EXTREMELY inaccurate and could lead to poor fish health.

 

[OhNeil1969]

BTW, you're not incompetent. We've all been where you're at right now. This is a great place to learn and share so that things like what you've gone through won't happen again.

 

[jenatron]

+1 on the test kit suggestion OhNeil! Totally slipped my mind!

 

[JackSpadesSI]

I actually have the API Master freshwater test kit, but it is a total pain to use (plus, I'm rather paranoid of handling the sensitizer/corrosive chemicals). I tested over the weekend. I forget the exact numbers, but ammonia and nitrate were zero, while nitrite was insanely high.

Immediately, I did two 30% PWC, got the guppy fry into their own separate tank, and began feeding less (I feel bad - they seem hungry). I haven't tested since, but I'll plan to do so tomorrow.

 

[Coleallensmom]

I actually have the API Master freshwater test kit, but it is a total pain to use (plus, I'm rather paranoid of handling the sensitizer/corrosive chemicals). I tested over the weekend. I forget the exact numbers, but ammonia and nitrate were zero, while nitrite was insanely high.

Immediately, I did two 30% PWC, got the guppy fry into their own separate tank, and began feeding less (I feel bad - they seem hungry). I haven't tested since, but I'll plan to do so tomorrow.

Oto are sensitive and do best in an established, well planted tank. The rest very well may have been lost due to conditions in your tank.

Your tank is not fully cycled if there is >0ppm ammonia or nitrIte in the tank. Keep in mind that any ammonia/nitrIte over .25ppm can be harmful to fish. Overfeeding, especially in a cycling tank can cause large ammonia and nitrite spikes. I agree with Ohneil on this one...there is no need to overfeed. If you take just a small amount of food and grind it with your fingers until the flakes are a small enough size, fry can get more then enough food even with adult fish in the tank. You really need to start testing your water parameters every day and doing PWCs accordingly. Anytime ammonia or nitrites are above .25ppm, a water change should be done.

 

[Luanne]

I agree with Durvish; I do pwc's twice a week. During each change, I vacuum one half of the tank and the other half during the other pwc. This seems to not disturb the established bacteria.

 

[silver_rose42]

Another possible suggestion would be if you're doing that many water changes, you could be stressing out your fish along with getting rid of some of the cycling bacteria.

It happens for a while, until you get that cycle going, fish will die. I felt like such a fish-killer when I started my tank, but it's running smoothly now, with all of my fish happy and healthy. I wish you luck with getting it all figured out, and hopefully with no other loss.

 

[Coleallensmom]

Another possible suggestion would be if you're doing that many water changes, you could be stressing out your fish along with getting rid of some of the cycling bacteria.

It happens for a while, until you get that cycle going, fish will die. I felt like such a fish-killer when I started my tank, but it's running smoothly now, with all of my fish happy and healthy. I wish you luck with getting it all figured out, and hopefully with no other loss.

Almost all of the good bacteria in a tank live in filter media and in the substrate of the tank. Doing water changes is not only neccessary when cycling with fish, but if done correctly should not stress fish and will not make a significant impact on the amount of bacteria in the tank.

 

[jenatron]

Another possible suggestion would be if you're doing that many water changes, you could be stressing out your fish along with getting rid of some of the cycling bacteria.

I don't mean to be rude but that's just not true..

 

[silver_rose42]

I don't mean to be rude but that's just not true..

The constant changing of their surroundings, losing swimming area, then suddenly having everything change again can be stressful. I'm not saying that she shouldn't change the water, but 2-3 times a week isn't necessarily good for the tank. That was all I was saying. I know mine get stressed if I change the water too much. Just suggesting something I know can happen, because it's happened to mine.

 

[jenatron]

If they're getting stressed, there's something else wrong. If you dump the water in fast, or don't temp match, or do a humongous change then they'll get stressed. But like Alisha said, if done properly it isn't stressful.

 

[Coleallensmom]

The constant changing of their surroundings, losing swimming area, then suddenly having everything change again can be stressful. I'm not saying that she shouldn't change the water, but 2-3 times a week isn't necessarily good for the tank. That was all I was saying. I know mine get stressed if I change the water too much. Just suggesting something I know can happen, because it's happened to mine.

An established tank doesn't usually need PWCs more then once per week and usually then just to introduce fresh water into the tank and to keep nitrates under control. A cycling tank if cycling with fish, should not have ammonia or nitrite levels over .25ppm. Anytime that happens, a PWC should be done. Period. Loss of swimming area is a much smaller "stress" then ammonia poisoning.