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Old 06-29-2015, 07:31 PM   #1
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Angel fish injury or disease?

My black striped angel fish is slowly beginning to have tiny white spots appear on his body and I cannot decide it it is a parasite, disease, or injury. They have been appearing slowly for a couple months now and I never really thought about it because none of the other fish have them and the angel in question is not acting odd. I sort of assumed they where just bubbles or oddly angled scales I suppose. He is not scratching or rubbing against objects either. Today I looked at them again more closely and he seems to have more than he did last week and they sort of look like they may have loose flesh around them although it is hard to tell (I thought maybe a parasite coming out but the fuzzy stuff is not moving). He also has small shiny black dot near his tail that came up when the shiny white ones did, and a hole in the top of his top fin. I have another angel and they both bully each other occassionally, so I was wondering g if it could be injuries inflicted by the other as well. Maybe displaced scales and small wounds? What are youlls thoughts?

The tank has been running for about a year and all the fish are from it's beginning except a panda Cory I bought today and the tetras and peppered Cory are from another tank I had before this one but have been in this one from the beginning. Tank is 30 gallon with AquaClear 70 filter, live and fake plant mix, sand soil, and driftwood.

Tank mates:
1 other angel of equal size
3 leapord cories, 1 peppered Cory, 1 panda cory
3 kuhli loaches
3 nerite snails
5 rosy finned tetras
1 clown pleco

Water parameters as of today:

Ph: 7.6 (high for angels but it's been this way since I first set up the tank)
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: either 10 or 20 ppm

I did get behind on cleaning not too long ago because of family issues. I typically do a water change every 2 months which I do know is not enough. I also have to use purigen and prime in the tank because our tap water has ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in it straight from the sink which I know is crazy and unbelievable but I tested it when I could not get control of the parameters and discovered that was the cause. I did test it right, they are in the tap water, I know that's bad but the tank is not effected because of the prime and purigen. If you have anymore questions please let me know! I hope you'll can help!!!

Ps: let me know if you need another photo angle! (I was also wondering if the other angel could be ramming him and displacing the scales or if that was even possible. They both pick on eachother, and it never seems to get that violent, just the normal pecking order stuff. The other angel also has a hole in a fin, but I can't see any spots on him although he is black and white so I might have just not seen them. The other fish definatly don't show anything though.

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Old 06-29-2015, 07:57 PM   #2
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It looks to me like ich.


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Old 06-29-2015, 08:15 PM   #3
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That was my first thought, but he isn't scratching at all, has had it for months, and yet none of the other fish are showing a single sign. It just isn't matching ichs profile. Plus my tank regular heats up and would have killed ich by now I think, unless of course, ich comes in multiple forms and I've only dealt with one of them

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Old 06-29-2015, 08:22 PM   #4
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There are heat resistant strains, that can tolerate the heat did you medicate at all?


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Old 06-29-2015, 08:24 PM   #5
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It could also be a type of fungus caused by wounds between the fighting angels. Those are the two most likely as far as i know


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Old 06-29-2015, 08:28 PM   #6
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Hmmm never thought about a fungus. As far as medicating, I have not. I've been afraid to use anything with the nerite snails and clown pleco in the tank and I do not have a quarantine tank. Our house does not have central heat and air, only window units which are off during the day. My tank sometimes reaches above 84 degrees so I figured that would kill anything like ich

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Old 06-29-2015, 08:30 PM   #7
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You need 86+ to kill any kind of ich for about a week


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Old 06-29-2015, 08:34 PM   #8
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Okay, I may try that and see of anything happens. I had another fish friend suggest it could be HLLE whoch, but I've never heard of it before and when I researched it it seemed to just effect saltwater. Do you know anything about that?

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Old 06-29-2015, 08:42 PM   #9
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That's ich, I'm almost 100% sure.
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Old 06-29-2015, 08:52 PM   #10
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Doesn't look like HLLE IMO.
Look into black spot(diplopstomiasis).
Aquarium FD - Black Spot (diplopstomiasis) - Disease Identification, Diagnosis & Treatment


BLACK SPOT Fish Help/Disease.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:05 PM   #11
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I'm semi wondering if it's not a combination of black spot and ich because he has another black spot towards his head in the side of his body in this picture. Is that possible for one fish to have 2 illnesses when none of the others in the tank are infected?

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Old 06-29-2015, 09:09 PM   #12
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IMO if it was ich you (your fish) would be much worse.
I don't think it is ich IMO?
Many disease will manifest secondary infections that are more easily recognised.
Sadly most of the time the main issue is what needs to be treated to relieve both issues.
No cure for blackspot,but it is recommended to get rid of the snails which is how it was introduced IF that is what it is?
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralbandit View Post
IMO if it was ich you (your fish) would be much worse.
I don't think it is ich IMO?
Many disease will manifest secondary infections that are more easily recognised.
Sadly most of the time the main issue is what needs to be treated to relieve both issues.
No cure for blackspot,but it is recommended to get rid of the snails which is how it was introduced IF that is what it is?
I do agree with you on the ich. I feel like it has been progressing way too slowly to be ich and has not infested the tank fast enough, I'm just not sure what else it could be that could occur with the black spots. I read that the parasite begins in snails and then to the fish, then will die off. If the cycle ends with the angel, do the snails still need to be removed since the parasite cannot restart the cycle? I don't want to kill the snails, I don't want to infect my betta tank with them if they did cause Black Spot, and I don't have a quarintine tank available.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:15 PM   #14
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I actually stand corrected that it is treatable.
Salt baths and ich meds are all I could find.
All links mentioning OTC meds said Black spot was "easy to cure".
The salt bath should be done outside the tank so sound like best first approach?
This way if it is some mild form of ich we are addressing that also!
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:10 PM   #15
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Out of interest where are the white spots on the fish? I looked and thought I could see several on the rays of the fins, maybe some around the head and some along the lateral line? Wasn't sure if I was seeing things though


What is tap water chemistry going again?
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delapool View Post
Out of interest where are the white spots on the fish? I looked and thought I could see several on the rays of the fins, maybe some around the head and some along the lateral line? Wasn't sure if I was seeing things though


What is tap water chemistry going again?
There are very few white spots. Maybe two towards the side of the fish at eye level on his flank, one near the gills, and one near his back. There is also a small black spot that has appeared near the base of his tail. Then maybe two more white spots on the other side and one black.

Last august when I checked the tap, the parameters where:

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: between .25 and .50 in color
Nitrite: between 2.0 and 5.0
Nitrate: 0 ppm

I need to check them again this year to see if the problem is fixed yet or not.
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Old 06-30-2015, 12:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralbandit View Post
I actually stand corrected that it is treatable.
Salt baths and ich meds are all I could find.
All links mentioning OTC meds said Black spot was "easy to cure".
The salt bath should be done outside the tank so sound like best first approach?
This way if it is some mild form of ich we are addressing that also!
Yes, salt bath definatly sounds like a sound approach! Out of curiosity, what are the steps to preform a salt bath? I've never done one before.
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Old 06-30-2015, 01:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
There are very few white spots. Maybe two towards the side of the fish at eye level on his flank, one near the gills, and one near his back. There is also a small black spot that has appeared near the base of his tail. Then maybe two more white spots on the other side and one black.



Last august when I checked the tap, the parameters where:



pH: 7.6

Ammonia: between .25 and .50 in color

Nitrite: between 2.0 and 5.0

Nitrate: 0 ppm



I need to check them again this year to see if the problem is fixed yet or not.

Thanks for the info.

I'd pm andy sager to check out as a follow up. I'm not sure on the ich and don't have enough experience with HLLE.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:46 AM   #19
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Yes, salt bath definatly sounds like a sound approach! Out of curiosity, what are the steps to preform a salt bath? I've never done one before.
Salt | The Skeptical Aquarist

Dela has great point to contact Andy, as he knows much on angels and this may be something angel specific?
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:02 AM   #20
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Yes, a just in case.

Would be keen to know on anything he reports back on (as may suit).
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