Angelfish with clampled fins

[rlg]

Hi, 3 of my 6 angelfish have got clamped fins, the tails are the worst. I have had them for around 9 months and have never had any trouble with them until now.

It started with one of them and now 2 others are the same. They have been like this for nearly a week now. They still seem to be getting about ok and are feeding but they do seem to be hiding a lot more than usual. They don't appear to have any other symptoms.

I have done a water change and the levels all seem to be ok.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[rich311k]

Are the other angels picking on them or dominating them? What size tank and how big are the fish?

[BillD]

How big a water change did you do? Regardless of what the levels are, a large change (50% or better) is in order, and i would follow it with another the same day. If their are pathogens in the water, which test kits don't tell you, you are best to remove as many as possible to give the fish a better chance of beating off the malaise, which could be bacterial in nature.
Are you employing the same water change regimen as you did when you started the tank? Are the fish bigger now? I have found over the years when people encounter problems with their tanks it is near the year mark, resulting from their fish having grown and the aquarist not increasing maintenance to compensate. The increased bioload, allows for the increased proliferation of toxins, (chemical) and pathogens (biological).

[rlg]

No they definitely aren't being bullied. They are about 1.5 inch.

The tank is a 5ft tank (not sure how many gallons. I have it written down but I'm not at home). The fish were moved from a smaller aquarium about 4 months ago.

It was about a 25% water change my husband did. He won't do weekly water changes because he says it stresses the fish out.

[jimenezlee]

Please try to post a picture. I believe you may be confusing clamped fins with fin rot. Can you describe the problem better? You should also do a full water test and post PH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and water temp. You ideally want to keep PH around 7, and temp around 80, 0 for NH3, N2 & N3.

I've had mine behave like that sometimes, a big water change with prime and Seachem Neutral regulator made them happy immediately. Tell your hubby if he doesn't want to change water in the whole tank to do a test as I recommend in a bucket or other big plastic container and check the reaction on your sickest fish. Hopefully there will be a good reaction and convince him to give those fish some fresh water.

[rlg]

Temp is 80°/27°
Cl2 - 0
pH - 8.0
KG - 6°2
GH - 16°d
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 50 (I know this is a little high but the whole time I have had the fish, no matter what I do it doesn't seem to come down.
Ammonia - 0

I have attached the clearest pictures I can get. The pearly one is the worst. The koi one's fins aren't really closed up so much, but his dorsal fin is kind of a little folded over (maybe you can make out what I mean from the pic). The 3rd angelfish's fins look the same as the pearly one but not quite as bad.

I've started feeding them live food this week to see if that helps perk them up, but so far no joy

[Rosenweiss]

That's definitely clamped fins... I'm sorry to hear that. I think the best thing though would be to try to convince your husband that pwc's don't really stress fish (at least not as much as toxins in the water) as long as the water is the same temperature and you don't splash too much. Some of mine even like to swim in the current of the new water coming in.

[rlg]

Thanks, i'm working on convincing my husband.

I read somewhere that quick cure and aquarium salt may help?

[rich311k]

Best thing is lots of good clean water, nothing is better for fish than water changes.

[jcolon]

Originally Posted by Rosenweiss

That's definitely clamped fins... I'm sorry to hear that. I think the best thing though would be to try to convince your husband that pwc's don't really stress fish (at least not as much as toxins in the water) as long as the water is the same temperature and you don't splash too much. Some of mine even like to swim in the current of the new water coming in.

+1 PWC's is the way to go ... and like Rosenweiss said, they may even like the current it generates. IMO if you keep to a PWC weekly schedule, the fish get accustomed to it ... mine just keep going about their business as the water is pouring in.

[jimenezlee]

Angels are never happy in PH 8.0 How did it get to that, does your tap test at PH 8.0 or do you think your substrate contributes to that? To bring it down you need to slowly acclimate your fish... That's what I use the Seachem regulator for.

Everything else looks good.

[rlg]

Thanks everyone for you advice.

I'm not sure how it got to that. The chart I have says it's a safe level, so I haven't really given it another thought.

I've managed to convince my husband to do a big water change today and he says he will give it ago replacing some of the water weekly, so hopefully that will help.

[Rosenweiss]

There's no need to have the nitrates at 0, and 8 pH is perfectly fine. Freshwater Fish adjust to any pH so long as it's constant, I'm sure youi'll find that's the prevailing opinion on this site. pH changers will make your pH swing as stress out your fish, so it's better that you leave it alone, imo.

[jimenezlee]

Yep, any PH adjustment can be tricky and it's best not to have to do it. If your tap water has lower PH than that, then water changes may be all that's needed for your fish to be better. If it is lower out of the tap, you should look for the source of higher PH, and the substrate is a common source of that. The African cichlids guys use crushed coral to raise hardness and PH.

Another thing that is not in line is that you say there have been minor water changes done so far; PH normally goes down over time, not up as part of the natural Nitrogen cycle. So do look for that source of high PH.

[jimenezlee]

So how are your fish doing? I'm curious whether the water changes helped and if you found the source of your high PH.

[BillD]

From the picture, it seems their are calcerous rocks in the tank. This could be the cause of the pH rising, when you combine it with a lack of water changes. A ph of 8 isn't an issue with angels, especially tank raised strains like you have. The nitrate number of 50 is all you need to know about the need for PWCs. 40 is considered a max (I don't know who determined that), but less than 20 would be better. In this case, a large water change of 50% or more will (I don't consider 50% large) will help in a couple of ways. It will reduce the nitrates and remove a large number of pathogens or toxins that may be in the water. Perhaps more frequent filter cleaning would also help reduce the nitrate levels. Removing the solid waste before it has a chance to break down will help lower the nitrate level.

[rlg]

They are still alive but the water change doesn't really seem to have made any difference. My husband has changed the carbon in the filter.

The pearly one's tail has fallen off now too

[jimenezlee]

You may want to post this on the angelfish diseases section of the angelfish forum, on angelfish.net

They have some very knowledgeable angelfish only folks. Good luck.

[rlg]

OK thanks

[rlg]

Incase anyone was wondering, we lost one of the fish. We have removed the carbon from the filter now and medicated them and they all seemed to have massively improved. Even the pearly one with pretty much no tail left seems back to his old self .