Apisto Bloat ?

[ZxC]

Bought a pair of agassizi fire golds, the female is healthy and happy, but the male (as seen in video) is showing signs of bloating. He is otherwise happy and appears to be swimming fine, but the larger tummy has me concerned. I don't want to have to go through the trial and error of several meds etc... I haven't seen him eat or poo, only because of the dense plants, but I did through some mushed up cooked peas that everything else in the tank ate, I;m assuming he got some that settled into the plant growth, no change over the 5 days I've had him.

Is this something to be concerned over?

The store acclimated them for a week, then I bought them, should I have waited longer to see what kind of disease could have been present? My personal first attempt with appsito / ram cichlids.

 

[King Fisher]

If you think it's constipation try an Epsom salt bath. Ive been successful with a guppy and a dwarf gourami using this method. I start with 1 teaspoon of Epsom salt per gallon of water. Get the water the same temp as your tank or no more than 2 degrees higher. Place the fish in it for 20-30 min. Take him out and return him to your tank. Sometimes it only takes one shot. Other times you maybe doing this once a day for a few days or better if they are really constipated. If you continue this over a couple days and it's not working. Try adding 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of water.

 

[ZxC]

I'm not thinking it's constipation, I haven't fed nor is there a food source other than algae in the tank. I also will not add salt to the water, plants don't appreciate salt

I've been reading and it sounds like a internal bacteria infection, but the solution is throw it in several medicated baths, trial and error per say, and the survival rate is still low.

 

[coralbandit]

It really did not look too bloated from video to me.
What is your water like ?
Those are nice apistos..I had 6 of them a couple years ago that no matter what I did I could not get to breed..
Offer frozen blood worms..
Internal infection I would just treat with Kannamycin..I would toss in furan because the combo works on almost everything but the furan can be hell on plants..
If your water is hard that may really be all it is from ..Soft water fish have "more salts " in their system then Hard water fish..They osmoregulate by letting salt out and in taking lower in salt water.. In hard water they suffer.. Hard water fish are low on salt and uptake to regulate.. They fair better when mismatched to water due to having a deficiency as opposed to an overdose ...

 

[ZxC]

It really did not look too bloated from video to me.
What is your water like ?
Those are nice apistos..I had 6 of them a couple years ago that no matter what I did I could not get to breed..
Offer frozen blood worms..
Internal infection I would just treat with Kannamycin..I would toss in furan because the combo works on almost everything but the furan can be hell on plants..
If your water is hard that may really be all it is from ..Soft water fish have "more salts " in their system then Hard water fish..They osmoregulate by letting salt out and in taking lower in salt water.. In hard water they suffer.. Hard water fish are low on salt and uptake to regulate.. They fair better when mismatched to water due to having a deficiency as opposed to an overdose ...

My LFS would have used their tap water, which is hard, high kH, gH and pH. The tank I have them in now is pH 7.4, kH 6, gH 5 temp 78. He looks more bloated in real time, I hesitated posting this because I couldn't get a good shot of him showing symptoms. Worst case if it doesn't show improvement is relocated fish in my QT tank and throw him in there to treat, but like I said I'm not a fan of the "throwing spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks" approach.

I'm not too attached to this one as of now, so if I lose it, it won't be the end all. I'm just trying to sort things out and understand if this is a common issue to appistos.

 

[ZxC]

Couple more crappy Iphone pics, these ones show his shape a little better.

 

[coralbandit]

He looks a little bloated in those pics..
Your water should be fine.
Are you sure on sexing?
Females have a round tail males have a laceolate [flame shaped].

 

[ZxC]

He looks a little bloated in those pics..
Your water should be fine.
Are you sure on sexing?
Females have a round tail males have a laceolate [flame shaped].

errr.... Goes to show how much I know about these fish, I went off LFS employee. Fish in question is a female... still looks a little too bloated for my liking though. As for the other fish, male?

 

[coralbandit]

Possibly...
Needs to mature more if it is..
The coloring is funny with these guys.
In most agassizii the tail of male is also rimmed with blue but the purple will be hard to see.
I was pretty sure I had at least 2 pairs out of the 6 I got and they just proceeded to frustrate the daylights out of me.. I worked those fish for months before selling them to bud in Geogia..
They are in one my LFS now also . I think they get their fish from Seagrest.
I have ,and still am considering them .I just can't say I see both sexes.They all look too much alike to me . They have been in store for almost 3 weeks with no sales.. Our apisto market up here sucks..No real fish club.

I'll honestly add I only know about Apisto because I bought two very expensive books on them..Mergus cichlid atlas volumes 1 &2 .Together close to $400.00
If you were serious about Apistos the books are the Bible and still selling for even more...There are many other good Apisto books also..

 

[V227]

Z×C
You and especially CB are light years ahead of me regarding Apisto keeping. There is so much I don't know about those beautiful fish. Upon viewing the video, the Apisto in question did look
chubby, but didn't exhibit Dropsy, nor did it have a bent spine, both known symptoms of Internal bacterial problems. It is also still quite agile.
Z, I don't know what biotypes Apistos need, but my guess is your tank would be considered an Apisto Garden of Eden. Might be best to just to give the chubby girl a chance to settle in and of course feed sparingly. Watch her closely for any external Columnaris symptoms.
As we all know, if the problem proves to be an internal bacterial infection, it' usually doesnt end well. By the time the external symptoms are observed, the organs are already damaged.
I am very pro meds, especially regarding the treatment of parasites, but I haven't read many posts where any internal bacterial outbreaks were cured.

 

[ZxC]

I agree, I’ll let these two grow out, feed a good varied diet, and observe. I’ve got another LFS with Agassizi fire reds as well, so even if I’m left with a single, I could grab another of similar size, or larger depending on the aggression. For now they are in a low tech 90 gallon with dense dense plants, parameters in an above post, they will be the only fish in that tank for a while now, and I’m thinking of splitting my colony of freshwater copapods and introducing them into this tank, I love watching fish hunt for them, that and a balanced diet of frozen, omega pellets and nls.

 

[King Fisher]

I'm not thinking it's constipation, I haven't fed nor is there a food source other than algae in the tank. I also will not add salt to the water, plants don't appreciate salt

I've been reading and it sounds like a internal bacteria infection, but the solution is throw it in several medicated baths, trial and error per say, and the survival rate is still low.

Sorry I mean a salt bath in a separate tank or large pot. Also, I generally add a little aquarium salt to my tanks although it's a controversial method. I have moderately planted tanks with no problems. It comes down to ppm. Nearly all freshwater sources in the world contain a small amount of salt from rocks, substrate, ect.

 

[coralbandit]

This is what a good male should look like ;
http://r.search.aol.com/_ylt=AwrB8p..._800.jpg/RK=0/RS=bXkDngTQwmOn4fxuOH_YmYk48vI-

I can't stop thinking about these fish for the last couple weeks...

Is yours looking any better?

 

[ZxC]

This is what a good male should look like ;

http://r.search.aol.com/_ylt=AwrB8p..._800.jpg/RK=0/RS=bXkDngTQwmOn4fxuOH_YmYk48vI-



I can't stop thinking about these fish for the last couple weeks...



Is yours looking any better?

Ah the link won’t work for me. I was gone all day for work, but this morning I didn’t see any change to the fish in question. Still looks overly chubby

 

[ZxC]

Update

Both are eating (omega mini pellets and the odd bloodworm, or neo shrimp if they catch em) the smaller of the two (fish in question) still looks bloated, it is active and otherwise acting normal.... exploring more of the tank each day. I have not seen the fat one poo, but I have been seeing the other one excrete its waste.

They are "fighting" when I put the moonlight on, maybe I'll try and get a video, but during the day they stay close to one another and don't "fight". I'm undecided on the genders of the two still. Anyway, here are some pics.

 

[V227]

That is good news. I always have had good luck with Omega One micro pellets regarding finicky eaters. Its good that the chubby one is swimming and acting normally. Maybe he has a genetic predisposition to hold weight. Id rather see a fish a little too chubby than a little too skinny.

 

[King Fisher]

Try Omega One kelp flakes.

 

[ZxC]

Try Omega One kelp flakes.

What are the benefits of feeding that?

 

[coralbandit]

From what I can see both have round tails.. Females ..

 

[ZxC]

From what I can see both have round tails.. Females ..

I see the round tails too, but cruising through google images and it seems with these the flame shape is hit or miss with the males. Lots of males on there with rounder tails. These ones are not even an inch long yet, I'm not sure how old they have to be to really start showing differences . I'll try for some good pics