Bad News....

[dkpate]

So, I put my new "art project" in the tank, and today when I woke up, both the BGK and D. Gourami were looking sickly! (Breathing fast, not eating, and the DG's colors are darker, which is my signal something is wrong). ACK! So I changed 50% of the water and also changed out the filter cartridges in the big filter to have some new carbon in there to maybe filter out whatever was making them sick, and went to a basketball game. Well, when I got home, they were still being weird and still not wanting to eat. I moved them to the 20G with the loaches and 2 H. Rasb.'s until I can get all of the water out of the big tank and new in...
So far, the BGK is more lively and not hanging out by the filter output, breathing faster than he usually does, but the DG is still looking sickly and just hanging out in the corner.
Does anyone have any idea what could have caused this? The art project was a piece of pvc pipe which was cleaned and soaked (also rated for drinking water and not sewage), the beach glass was cleaned and soaked for days, the sand is the same sand I have in the tanks (pfs) and the silicone I used was the stuff for outdoors and NOT anti-mildew. I am thinking it was the silicone that made the tank funky? I hope these two make it because they are my favorite!
Thanks!

[i3k]

How long did the silicone cure for?

By the way, was it the Wizards/Lakers game you went to see?

[dkpate]

I only left the silicone for one day, I didn't even think to let it set out longer....

LOL, no I went to my little brother's varisty game.

[mfdrookie516]

was the nasty siilicone smell gone?

[WhiteDevil]

its gotta be GE-1. outdoors doesnt mean much because all caulking is a sealant, the outdoor stuff has additives to prevent UV damage to the caulking.

its in a white tube with mostly blue on the front

says SILICONE I under the big GE logo, the walmart has em for under 4 bucks for a 10 oz tube.

[hbeth82]

Would aquarium sealant be a possible substitute for the GE Silicone? I know it works for gluing PVC to PVC (basking area for turtle) and does a decent job of holding rocks together.

Hope your fish recover!

[WhiteDevil]

yes, GE-1 is just 10x cheaper and is pretty much the same stuff just white.

[dkpate]

Yes, it says silicone right under the brand. I am not sure if the smell was gone, I didn't even check. I feel like SUCH an idiot, and bad for my fish. So far they are still alive, although the BGS is still breathing fast and won't eat. The DG is eating though. Its doesn't say G-1 on it I don't think, but it says 100% silicone, and to let it sit for 8 hours before exposing to water. I don't know...I feel terrible.
Is there anything I should do to the tank it was in? I changed out 50% of the water and put in new filters. Should I just empty out the entire tank and start over?

[dkpate]

AH man, well I just looked closely at the BGK, and his bottom fin seems to be falling apart near his tail, and I see a red line in the clear part which is probably blood. There is nothing sharp in the tank he's in now, so it's probably from the dang silicone.....UGGH!!! My poor baby....

[DragonFish71]

Aww poor guy! I hope he pulls through.

[dkpate]

Thanks Dragon. I hope he does too....

[underdog5004]

Did you sand the rough edges of the PVC pipe? If not, he might have just scraped himself on that.

[dkpate]

They're sanded, everything in his tank is sanded and smooth, since he has no scales. It's not from scraping, I know it's from the silicone....Thanks though!

[dkpate]

Ok, so still haven't heard any advice on what to do with the tank.
The BGK is getting more "bloody spots" on his undulating fin, and he seems to be gasping/taking air at the surface regularly. He still hasn't eaten either... (This is my pig fish too!) Also, it's almost like he can't "see" or smell anymore. He won't come near the food, and the bright lights don't bother him. I haven't seen him stop moving since either, he is up all day and all night. I just picked up some clove oil, do you think I should put him out of his misery? He doesn't seem to be getting better, it's the opposite.
The DG is back to normal as far as I can tell, he is not darkened anymore.
Thanks.

[hbeth82]

That's a tough thing to consider and even harder to do sometimes. If you're confident that he's only getting worse and is suffering, I guess the best thing for him would be using the clove oil. Had a ram that was sick for a while, hadn't eaten for several weeks, but it wasn't until he was gasping and laying on his side that I could make myself euthanize him. Felt horrible and hated my selfishness when I realized that he'd probably starved to death.

As for the tank, I would say clean it out as best you can - remove gravel, clean with vinegar, rinse thoroughly. Sorry you've had so much trouble with something that was meant to be good for the tank.

[dkpate]

I am gonna have to find someone else to put him down, I can't do it, he's my baby. I know how you felt...I feel the same way. I know he's not getting any better, but I keep thinking he will...But I know he's not going to. WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! He has only gone 3-4 days without eating, but I can already see his ribs....
I was worrying about my snails in the tank. I guess I will just have to try and get as many out as possible. *shrug* We'll see how that goes, there are SO MANY! It's gonna be a long day and I haven't slept yet....*yawn*

[dkpate]

Also, how do I go about using the clove oil? I read somewhere you just douse a rag in it, and then wrap them up, and they go to sleep peacefully.

I really hate this, he is my survivor! He went through my dumbness of not knowing the nitrogen cycle...

[hbeth82]

Have to say, glad I'm not the only one who gets so attached to a pet that forgets me as soon as it looks away. Had to give Junior (runt of the group) an 'ice bath' and I think I apologized to him while him getting him out of the tank and putting him in the bowl. After that I couldn't even look at him and was sooo thankful that boyfriend was there to help.

On how to do it, I thought you just added it to a small amount of water (cup, bowl, whatever) so that the oil stays fairly concentrated. Here's what the sticky 'Overview of Euthanazia" says:
Clove Oil (eugenol)

Clove Oil can be found relatively cheap in most health food stores, specialty food stores, and pharmacies. Mix it with warm tank water, and shake. Note, that the Oil is not readily dissolved in water, which is why the shaking is very important. The water will eventually turn white when the correct amount of clove oil has been added. Add the fish to this mixture, and it will slowly die from an overdose of this anesthetic oil. More clove oil may need to be added after the fish is in the solution, so my advice is to not skimp on the initial mixture. ¼ teaspoon per gallon of water is the lethal dosage, however more may be used.

After the fish appears dead, it would be best to either freeze the fish or decapitate it, as fish have been known to “wake up� after deep sleep, and supposed death from anesthetics.

As for the snails, are they ramshorn or the mystery snails? If they're little, you can always try using a turkey baster.

[dkpate]

They are MTS snails. Some are little, some are not. And there are about a thousand of them . I will see what kind of sifting I can do.

Thanks for the directions, I really appreciate it! I am going to go to sleep now, (I worked all night), and am going to see how he's doing when I get up. Thanks for your help.

[hbeth82]

No problem, hope the sleeps helps you both but still sorry to hear about all this trouble.

On the snails, when I switched tanks, I put the gravel in a few shallow dishpan/bucket type things and enough water to cover the gravel, and just picked the little guys out as I saw them coming up to the surface. Know I didn't come close to getting them all out but better than I would have done otherwise and this was a good way to rinse the gravel off.