Betta - Fin Loss? Fin Rot? Or Fin Nipping? Or is it something else!?

[Saltypuppy]

Ok So I am completely confused as to what is going on here. I have two male bettas in a divided tank. Apollo (My halfmoon) was experiencing fin loss really quickly! I left for dinner on the 2nd of December and came home and he had taken a big chunk out of his fin. I am so confused. I mean it happened so quick I assumed it was fin nipping. My other Fish was completely fine. Well I have been treating Apollo with API stress coat +aloe, to help mend his damaged fins. The damage keeps getting worse and worse and I have given up on getting it better. But I am still dosing with API Stress coat + aloe.

Well today I noticed that my other betta is experiencing fin loss also. I have not seen this in him either. I have had him longer too, so I know his behavior better.

The tank is cycled and heated. I don’t have a filter just yet. I didn’t want to get one because I was scared my fish might get sucked in and get hurt. So I settled for cleaning the tank every week. I pebble vacuum every other week and I do at least a 25% water change every week; promptly dosing with the API stress Coat + Aloe.
Both of the fish are behaving 100% normal. They both eat, are active and respond to me. So I don’t know what it is. I have checked all the décor and its all safe from what I can tell. So I am at a loss of what to do. Here are some pictures…

[Saltypuppy]

This First Picture is of Rouge now - with his obvious fin problems. :C The second one is him a few months ago. All pretty and such...

[Saltypuppy]

Here is Apollo Without and Fin damage, and the second one is how he is now...

[mudraker]

You definately have water quality issues -which translates into health issues - if you are only doing 25% PWC weekly and have no filter.

You didn't say how large this divided tank is, but you will need to do almost daily PWC and more than one gravel vac a week if you don't have a filter on the tank.

I really recommend you look into getting a filter, take the fish out and put in different but roomy containers until it cycles.

I've kept betta's in tanks with all types of filters for years and never once had one get its tail sucked up a filter, though some do like to cling to them.

[Saltypuppy]

Its obvious something is happening... but I don't know what. :C

[Saltypuppy]

Its is cycled. I have had it up and running for at least 8 months. Its a 10 gallon tank by the way. I just did what it said on the internet. It said to change the water once a week - 50 -25%. I can pick up a filter. I planned on it, I just haven't gotten one yet.

[mudraker]

You have no filtration whatsoever?

There is no way the tank is cycled without filtration.

This is the internet also, and I'm telling you the truth.

Bettas are tough fish and can put up with bad water conditions for a time, but without filtration that is properly cycled they eventually die much faster than they would if housed properly.

[Saltypuppy]

Well than the interent is wrong. I have read in countless places that you don't have to have a filter for a betta. Also I have read that bacteria establishes itself in the rocks (Also the filter If you have one)

No I don't have a filter yet. I need to get one apparently.

So what do I do to solve this problem? Aside from buying a filter? or is that the problem. What should I be doing? How often should I be changing the water? How much?

[Tim Wheatley]

You don't have to, you don't have to eat right either to stay alive, do you? But you should.

There is a difference between living and surviving... Get a filter asap, help them live.

[Saltypuppy]

I know I agree with you. I have just read from TONS of places that a filter is not needed with Bettas, I will get one as soon as I can. I thought it was optional. It sounded like it was. I had full plans of getting one.

So what can I do now? Cause I have no way of going to the store right now. Also Is one of those whisper filters ok? I have heard they work well for bettas. I don't have very much money right now.

[mudraker]

You can keep bettas without filters, but you have to change at least half the water daily and that will still not match to water quality you will get with filtration.

The beneficial bacteria that fuels the cycle will only establish itself in the substrate if there is filtration.

Unfortunately, it doesn't just magically appear.

[Saltypuppy]

So How can I get his magical bacteria? From Petco? What do I ask for? Some of their old tank water?
Oh well, the websites I had found did not relay this information to me.
So I will get a filter as quick as I can. I can't get one today though. :p Maybe I can tomorrow.

[mudraker]

Take the fish out and put in different but roomy containers until the filter cycles the tank.

Here is a good article on fishless cycling:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-for-dummies-103339.html


Please do not be tempted buy products that claim to contain this bacteria and say they will cycle the tank for you. They are snake oil.

[Saltypuppy]

Wait they are better off in not heated bowls than a ten gallon right now?

[mudraker]

I recommended you do this after you get the filter.

Until then, you should be changing at least half of the water daily. Your fish are having problems due to poor water quality.

Once you begin cycling the tank, the bettas will be better off in bowls than the tank. While the cycling, the water toxic to fish. Once the cycle is complete, it will be a much better environment. Then you can go back to changing 25% of the water weekly, instead of the half daily you should be doing now.

[Saltypuppy]

Ok. So I need a filter and I need to hit up the pet store for some bacteria from their filters. IF they won't give me any what do I do?

Also what about this pure ammonia? Where in the world can I find that?

[Tim Wheatley]

Then you have to do a cycle with ammonia. There's a bunch of threads in the new folks/starting out forums on that.

By the way, I didn't mean to be harsh. Neither does anyone else here, it's just that we care more about the fishes needs than people's feelings. There's a difference between what they need and what is best for them... Bettas are great survivors and they can put up with some water other fish would die in much sooner, but yours seem to be struggling, so why not give them the very best? You'll actually find them much more vibrant and enjoyable.

I wouldn't worry about them being sucked into the filter. The only fish I have ever seen sucked into the filter are about a quarter of an inch long, babies.

[Saltypuppy]

Don't worry I'm not feeling hurt. I just am irritated that websites don't properly post what they NEED. I don't have much money right now, and I don't know how I don't know what I am going to keep them in. I don't know how much my filter is going to be, a test kit or the ammonia. I am flat broke right now. So its gonna be fun to try and get a hold of everything I need.

Don't get me wrong, I love my bettas, I thought I was giving them what they needed. Well at least from where I read. I thought the filter was an optional thing, and I read that bacteria establishes itself just fine in the rocks. This information was false.

But let me get this straight. If I get some filter water from the pet store I don't need ammonia? Also just getting this tank cycled and cleaned will fix the fin problem?

[mudraker]

But let me get this straight. If I get some filter water from the pet store I don't need ammonia?

Water won't work but substrate (gravel) from a cycled tank will kickstart a cycle. If you can get a filter, if you can find filter media from a tank that is already cycled, it will either greatly speed up or even instantly cycle your tank.

As you've had fish in the tank already, the filter will probably start cycling right away. If you can't get pure ammonia, you can use dead shrimp to create ammonia.

Also just getting this tank cycled and cleaned will fix the fin problem ?

Clean, cycled water will cure many, many problems with fungus, fin rot and prevents them from occuring in the first place.

I definately can feel your pain dude. Check craigs list, garage sales, 2nd hand stores, where you can for a filter if you have to. Make sure it comes with filter media.

Do you have an airpump?

[dkpate]

If it was my tank, I would get two of the little internal Whisper filters (I have 3 of them), keep the bettas in the 10 gallon, and change part of the water every day.
I have used this stuff called Bio-Zyme to cycle my betta tank, and it was done in a week. I think there is also a product called Tetra Start Right that has worked for people I know.