Black Moor slim coat issue

[RichGuzinski]

I have a 10 gal tank with a Black Moor and a Fan Tail (not sure the type). I know my tank is a little small but I've bee doing 25%-40% water changes 2x a week. I check the water every day. I just did a 75% water change cause I was have trouble with the tank clarity. Everthing is looking fine now but my Moor is sitting at the bottom and his slim coat is peeling. My pH was off before the water change. Not sure if that did it? The other fish is fine. Just the other day the Moor was hanging at the top bit not gasping for air. Juat sitting aboit 1/2 inch from the top. Going to upgrade tank to a 45 gallon soon. Till then I need some help on keeping these guys healthy. Ive posted two pics. One is of his slim coat the other is his tail which looks like its turning translucent. And you can see the bad water. Any advice will help. Thank you

 

[BBradbury]

Hello Rich...

By changing the routine with the water change suddenly, you changed the water chemistry and stressed your fish. Most fish are sensitive to changes in the water, so you need to make changes in your maintenance routine gradually. There's nothing wrong with large regular water changes, but you need to work up to it slowly.

B

 

[RichGuzinski]

Thank you for the info. So what should I do when the water is way dirty? I started with a 25% water change and the water was fine for a little while then it looked just as dirty. Thats when I went with a bigger water change. So I guessing he will be fine? Would you be able to give me a little more info on how much and when to change? That would help me tremendously. I have a Beta before but never goldfish. Always thought it would be easier

 

[flitabout]

You have a few factors at play here, goldfish with a high bioload, a small tank, and what I am guessing is a fish in cycle?
I am not really great on Goldfish but I do know black moors seem to be a bit more delicate. Again I am not even close to an expert on these guys.
As far a parameters you can't look at the water and tell if it's healthy or not. I have had crystal clear tanks and had my numbers off the charts (fishless cycle) and I have had cloudy tanks that were prefect and had very healthy fish in them. Get an api master test kit and test your water daily until you work out all of the kinks. Goldfish are very dirty fish. But if your tank is cycled then 25% twice a week should be okay. If not then you may need to do one daily. It really comes down to your levels. Make sure you are doing a gravel vac at least once a week to get all of the poop and leftover food out of the gravel.
I am a little unclear what you meant by the pH was a little off? The best way to tell if you need a water change is to test your parameters. Ammo ideally should be 0ppm along with your Nitrite, and your nitrate should be no more than 20ppm for a fish only tank. Anytime your Ammonia and nitrite get above .25ppm then you need to change the water. If the nitrate gets to 20 ppm then you know it's time for a water change.
Small tanks people think will be easier but in all reality actually are much harder to take care of. The parameters can go off really fast and crash the whole system killing your fish, because you are working with a much smaller volume of water. My 55g is way easier than my 10g I had as a kid I swear I could never get that thing right! My 55 when I just had plants and a couple of small fish I literally didn't change the water for 3 months.
Ok just to recap parameters should be:
Ammo 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate less than 20
Anything more than:
Ammo .25ppm
Nitrite .25ppm
Nitrate 20ppm
Means do a water change. Once it gets stable I would do 50% pwc once a week when you get the new bigger tank. Until then it will be as needed. pH can range anywhere from 6.5 to 8 and be totally normal. Higher and lower pH each have their own issues, But as long as you know what they are fairly easy to deal with.

 

[BBradbury]

Keeping Goldfish

Thank you for the info. So what should I do when the water is way dirty? I started with a 25% water change and the water was fine for a little while then it looked just as dirty. Thats when I went with a bigger water change. So I guessing he will be fine? Would you be able to give me a little more info on how much and when to change? That would help me tremendously. I have a Beta before but never goldfish. Always thought it would be easier

Hello again Rich...

I'm a Goldfish keeper too. I keep Comets. They're smaller, but still heavy waste producers. I keep several fry in a 38 G tank and change 50 to 75 percent of the tank water weekly and use large house plants immersed in the tank water to use more nitrogen from the dissolved fish waste. 25 to 30 percent water changes are pretty normal, but should be done twice weekly. If possible, work up to this point.

Here's what I would do. If you're used to changing 25 percent, then this is fine, but you need to change this amount a bit more often. Just gradually reduce the time between water changes. Once a week, then once every 6 days, then 5 days and so on. A small tank should get at least a 50 percent water change every 3 to 4 days, especially with a species of Goldfish.

B

 

[RichGuzinski]

Want to thank you both. All that help me a lot. My pH was around 8 and I had high ammonia. I think that damaged the slime coat. But what you both have told me gives me a little more in site as to what to look for and how high I can let things go. Im glad I found this forum the last one was no help. I was just geting told to take the fish back and buy a bigger tank. I will be up grading to at least a 35 gallon tank if not bigger. I love dish and always wanted to keep fish. I glad now I have a little more insite. Thank you again!

 

[RichGuzinski]

So I got home and the Moor was dead. I really dont know whats going on. I think maybe rhe watwr change and water temp. It did drop by like 5 degrees. This little guy is still hanging around but his slime coat seems to be doing the same. I tested my water and..

pH- 7.8

NH3/4+ - 0

NO2- 0

NO3-

Temp -

Thinking I need a faster moving filter?

 

[RichGuzinski]

Forgot to add pics. Yes this guy only has 1 eye. I got him that way

 

[flitabout]

I am so sorry you lost your moor. While you are cycling your tank I would suggest picking up a bottle of SeaChems Prime. It's the best on the market and can temporarily detoxify ammo nitrite and nitrate. A faster moving filter isn't really going to help if the filter doesn't have the media in it for the beneficial bacteria to grow on.
What filter are you running now if you do want to upgrade it we can suggest some that will work very well for you. Remember it can take quite a while to cycle a filter. Just hang in there! We are here for you.

 

[RichGuzinski]

I bought a 10 gallon kit by Aqueon. It has a bliking LED to tell you when to change the filter. My little 1 eye it got his pep back. The only thing im finding high is pH. Around 7.8. Would love to have another fish in the tank but Im guessing I should wait till I can get a bigger tank. Ive lost 3 fish since Christmas. I have no clue what Im doing wrong. I love animals and want and love fish. I dont want to buy more just to have them die. Beneficial bacteria might be what Im lacking. I was told just to do small water changes and I should be able to produce my own. Just want to learn how to keep a healthy fish tank

 

[flitabout]

The tank isn't cycled that is why you are losing fish. A gold fish needs a least a 30 gallon tank. It is going to take some time to get your tank cycled and until you do please don't add anything else keep in mind goldfish can get to 10 inches and need 2-3 gallons per adult inch. Your pH is fine goldfish do well in harder higher pH water. While you don't want to do water changes that will stress your fish. It's way worse to expose them to high ammo and nitrite levels. Anything over .25 means a water change. You may have to do several large water changes to get those lvls down. If they where at say 4ppm a 50% water change would only get it down to 2ppm. So like I said a few large water changes to get those levels safer. Small tanks are so hard to deal with!
Here is some good news, when you get your new tank you will have an already cycled filter ready to put in the new tank. That will help you cycle the new tank that much faster. When you cycle the new larger tank I would suggest doing it as a fishless cycle. They are seriously much easier and no fish are harmed in the doing.
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html

 

[RichGuzinski]

What dies that mean "cycle the tank"? Could you tell me how and best way to do so? What should i do with this one from here on out to get it where i wont loose fish. And how do i get the new tank going? And last if I want about 4 fish what size is best. Again thank you so much for rhe help

 

[RichGuzinski]

So I lost my last fish over night. Woke up and his tail was stuck in the filter. Wasnt moving very much. So now that I have a fishless tank how do I get it fish ready? Now do I need to get bottled bacteria? How do I cycle it right? Do I need to clean it since fish have died in the tank? HELP PLEASE! I dont want to kill any more fish!!

 

[Matt68005]

If you notice white patchy skin, its probably due to costia or some other skin parasite, you could go to petsmart and get maracyn plus, or triple-sulfa, and then go to walmart and get Rapid cure, and dose them both together in a hospital tank like a ten gallon with airstone, that should pick them up. A heater and AQ salt in the Hospital tank would help too.
Salt= irritates the scales so as to produce more slimecoat, the fishes natural disease barrier, one which falls off during stress (you can smell it in a bucket full of fish)

 

[flitabout]

I posted 2 links about cycling a tank, but basically there is a few things you will need and all are pretty basic. The master test kit I like the api, a bottle of pure ammonia (with no added chemicals like surfactants no scents and if it bubbles it's a no go) and an oral syringe. You are going to add a specific amount of ammonia to get around 3-4ppm turn up the heat to around 80-86 and wait about a week to start testing When your ammonia starts to drop you will start testing for nitrite. When the nitrite starts to drop start testing for nitrate. To have your tank fully cycled the numbers need to be:
Ammo 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate lots!
Read this article and it will explain it way better than I just did! (I am getting sleepy)
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html

 

[RichGuzinski]

I was reading that a beginner shouldnt do a fishless cycle. Im going to get 1 small fish to cycle. I also bought a book on goldfish. Not trying to loose any more fish. I really loved my Moor. She was about the size of a silver dollar. Thank you for all the advice

 

[flitabout]

beginners should definitely do a fishless cycle not a fish in cycle. Fish in takes way long please reread that article I posted it doesn't say anything about beginners shouldn't do it. You will need to do daily testing and daily water changes for months! It takes so much longer and so much more work to properly do a fish in cycle and can do serious permanent damage to the fish you are using

 

[RichGuzinski]

Ive read about 30 articles online and every one say that its take too long and too much work to do it fishless. Should i trust 1 article or the countless others ive read. I have a book coming I will follow that

 

[flitabout]

I am not sure where these articles are you have read. But in the many I have read (no I haven't counted) over the years. All of the advice I have gotten from hundreds of people running successful tanks over the years, and my own observations. Tell me fishless cycling is the best way and the easiest. Daily testing and water changes for months not to mention the damage cycling a tank does to fish. I choose the article I did because, it covers all of the bases. Here are the top sites when doing a google search for fishless cycling. Not one mentioned that a beginner shouldn't do it. Quite the contrary. One went so far as to call the fish used for a fish in cycle suicide fish a quote from one
"During this time of cycling, ammonia and nitrites will spike up to dangerous levels for the fish. Some of them will survive the harsh welcome, but will not live out their full potential. There are always a few exceptions to this rule."
So if you think it's better to watch more fish suffer than is necessary, by all means give that a go. Just be on the look out for this
Respiratory distress Internal and external bleeding, reddening areas of skin caused by hemorrhaging from blood capillaries in the skin and internal organs
Erratic swimming, hyperactivity and excitability and twitching as the nerves become damaged Trying to escape from the water by constantly jumping out Mucus hyper-production causing a white clouding of the skin
If untreated, death
https://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Fishless-Cycle
A Quick Guide to Fishless Cycling | DrTim's Aquatics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishless_cycling
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/ammonia-instructions-for-a-fishless-cycle.19627/
https://www.algone.com/fishless-aquarium-cycling
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co...requently-asked-questions-on-fishless-cycling
http://rlearley.people.ua.edu/uploads/2/5/6/9/25693686/fishless_cycling.pdf
Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle and Fishless Cycling - Pets Keepers Guide

 

[Reygan2]

Ive read about 30 articles online and every one say that its take too long and too much work to do it fishless. Should i trust 1 article or the countless others ive read. I have a book coming I will follow that

You´ve been given sound advice here, which apparently you plan to ignore. Here´s a bit of info for you that I am sure you will also find in all those articles you read..

1. It looks like your goldfish had Velvet disease.
2. Goldfish really should NOT have gravel as a substrate. Not only does it trap detritus and other junk, it can get stuck in their mouths and kill them.
3. NO goldfish should EVER be kept in a 10 gallon tank.
4. Large parameter swings during cycling hurt fish.

You say you do not wish to kill anymore fish...