blue acara with "cloudy eye"?

[hbeth82]

Not sure how many questions I've asked about this fish but once again, more problems with Plinko, the blind blue acara. Noticed yesterday that he now has a white circle around his pupil and based on descriptions would call it either "cloudy eye" or "opaque lens" but the few pictures I can find of these problems don't appear to be what Plinko has. Today he was more or less motionless - not eating (even though food was just below his chin, or whatever fish have) and not responding to me shaking the food canister, spending all his time resting on the bottom in one corner or another, and gasping. I had noticed him spending more time resting on the bottom over the last few weeks but thought that maybe, since he's blind, he's just sleeping during the day since to him it's always nighttime.

water parameters:
ammonia & nitrite = 0
nitrate = 20/-
pH = 7.2-7.4
water temp = 77
dKH = 3
GH = 50-60

I don't have any aggressive fish, the 4" bristlenose being the meanest thing in there, so I don't think this was an injury, probably an infection? One site also suggested that this could be due to poor diet and all Plinko typically eats are Hikari carnivore pellets - could that also be a problem? Any thoughts on treatment?



Thanks!

[Crepe]

parameters seem good...could be bacterial, raise the temp and see what happens.

[CA_BroncoFan]

That looks like a good sized fish, how old is he?

[hbeth82]

Ok, I'll try upping the temps a bit & hopefully that will help him. Thanks. Should I aim for a certain temp?

He's probably about 1.5 - 2 years old. Got him a little over a year ago and he wasn't as big as my thumb, now he's almost the size of my hand! He's by far the biggest fish in my tank but being blind, also the meekest & most pitiful.

[hbeth82]

Working on raising the water temps but unfortunately it's AC season which isn't helping. Noticed this afternoon that Plinko's eye seems to be getting cloudier, and he's still not moving much or responding to food. Gonna try to get the water temps up to 84 or so and hope that helps, but if anybody has other ideas please let me know.



Thanks

[DragonFish71]

Make sure you use an airstone or something to stir up the water. The higher the temp goes, the less oxygen.

[hbeth82]

Thanks, turned up my HOB filters but need to find another air pump.

[hbeth82]

After a little over a week of raising the temps and no meds, Plinko's eye looks a little better, with most of the white stuff gone but now the eye looks rather 'glassy'. Unfortunately, he's acting like he feels worse - still not eaten anything, spits out any food I can get in his mouth (carnivore pellets, thawed bloodworms, sinking pellets) and only moves to switch sides of the tank. Most of the time, he's sitting on the bottom, gasping and often leaning to one side, sometimes propped up by the glass or a rock. The water temp is around 82-83 and I have a 10gal pump with air stone running, in addition to the two HOB filters. Not much else has changed.

I have a 10gal set up and am thinking about moving him to that but wanted to know if anybody knew what could be wrong. Any ideas?

[ChileRelleno]

Cloudy eyes can be caused by a number of things,
High NH3 or NO2.
Bacterial infection.
Worm cataract.

Treatments,
NH3/NO2 = Pristine water parameters.
Bacterial Infection = Paragon, Paragon II, Maracyn, Maracyn II, Ampicillex, Furan II and Neosulflex...
I recommend either increasing dosage and/or length of treatment.
If you can get some medicated food (antibacterial) into him that could help.

Eye Flukes/Worm Cataract, i.e. digenetic flukes/flatworms.
I like PraziPro or Clout.
I haven't used Coppersafe, but I've heard good things...

Do you have any sharp/rough/pointed decor in the tank?
I'm thinking eye injury with either the beginning of a bacterial/fungal infection due to the location/description.

Is this fish a new acquistion? How long have you had it?
*But both Eye Flukes/Worm Cataract, i.e. digenetic flukes/flatworms are very uncommon/rare in established aquaria/fish, due to their life cycles.
*More common in newly acquired wild caught fish and pond fish, some fish are bred in outdoor ponds and may bring it with'em too.
*Commonly these digenetic flukes/flatworms manifest as either internal/external cloudiness/cataract often accompanied with swelling (popeye) in the affected eye.
I've heard of Flukes showing first as multiple small white spots on the eye.
.................................................. ...............


I'm going to guess that it is a bacterial infection, that the eye is getting better, but the fish is still harboring the infection.
Hence its behavior.
Time to medicate it were my fish, and try hard to get a medicated food into him.

[hbeth82]

Originally Posted by ChileRelleno

Cloudy eyes can be caused by a number of things,
High NH3 or NO2.
Bacterial infection.
Worm cataract.

Of those options, I believe it's a bacterial infection, as the nitrates in my tank haven't gotten much over 20 for as long as he's been in my tank and I the only possibly sharp object I can think of in my tank are the ends of the zip-ties used to attach a large rock to some overly-buoyant driftwood but I tried to round the cut ends as best I could.

Originally Posted by ChileRelleno

Is this fish a new acquistion? How long have you had it?

He'd been in my boyfriend's 50gal for about 10 or so months and in that time his only problems were coming in with ich (no more fish from PetCo!) and being a pig. He started looking ill in January (barely moving or eating, some twitching of pelvic fins) so we moved him over to my 55gal thinking that the sickness could be due to high nitrates in my boyfriend's tank and by then I was using RO rather than tap water.

Originally Posted by ChileRelleno

I'm going to guess that it is a bacterial infection, that the eye is getting better, but the fish is still harboring the infection.
Hence its behavior.
Time to medicate it were my fish, and try hard to get a medicated food into him

Pretty much what I thought was going on - optimistic that his eye looks better but concerned that his body seems even worse. Do you think Melafix would do any good or does it cover too small of a ranger? Would Maracyn be better? Asking because I have Melafix on hand but no Maracyn. As for the medicated food, tried that as well but this stuff only floats until it disintegrates and he barely leaves the bottom of the tank, much less comes to the surface.

[ChileRelleno]

Maracyn -TC, gram neg, its aimed at the symptoms you report.

Or

Maracyn - plus, gram pos/neg, it treats both external & internal.

[hbeth82]

Thanks, I went with Maracyn Plus, hopefully Amazon will be true to their word and get it here in a few days - nobody near me carries the stuff. Still have two packets of Maracyn 2 left, going to move Plinko to the 10 gal qt tonight and use what I have until Maracyn Plus arrives. Fingers crossed!

Any thoughts on whether a blind fish should still have hiding places or will they just be more obstacles in an unfamiliar tank?

[Crepe]

Put some plants into the QT, plants or some kind of structure will make it feel safer.

[hbeth82]

Ok thanks, I wasn't sure. I have a fake log with equally fake plants in the qt now, along with a large clay pot, just wasn't sure if these would help him or be a hindrance.

[hbeth82]

Possibly more problems now! Started treating the 10gal tank with the Maracyn Plus yesterday, following the directions and dosing 2 capfuls and will dose again tomorrow. Thankfully, Plinko has been swimming around more today and spent much less time resting on the bottom, but he still won't eat.

However, checking on him a few minutes ago, I noticed small cotton / wool fluffs in several places on his body. From what I can find, looks it could be fungus or columnarius but am hoping that maybe it's some type of side effect from the medication. No spots around his mouth. If it helps, it looks like he's rolled around in dust-bunnies. Don't seen any sores or other signs of injury. I tried taking pictures but the spots don't show up. Any ideas what this could be and what I should do? Should I continue with the next dose tomorrow?

[ChileRelleno]

Good grief Charley Brown... One thing or another.

Originally Posted by ChileRelleno

The familiar and seemingly ubiquitous infections we've named Cotton Mouth, Fin Rot, Body Slime, Saddle back, Cotton Wool, Columnaris & Fungus, are usually the result of one or more, of two types of nasties, either fungal or bacterial in nature.
Both are common in the aquarium, it being a good petri dish, and given the chance they thrive on our fish.
Stress of all kinds, e.g. over crowding, fighting, drastic changes in environment and etc, and injury/illness, leads to suppressed immune systems, thus giving them the chance to take hold.
.......................................

These bacterial infections are the result of gram negative, aerobic, Flavobacterium, Flexibacter and/or Myxobacteria.
Bacterial usually appear as white/gray powder coating, slime and cob webbing, combined with skin/tissue lesions in live tissue.
Effective treatment(s) includes, fix whatever is stressing the fish, good water quality (NO3 below 20ppm), lowering temp to less than 75'F for duration of treatment, Pimafix (mild cases), Salt, Acriflavin (mild cases), Maracyn-2, Kanamycin & Furan-2 and other gram negative specific antibiotics.
Do not use gram positive medications such as Tetracycline, Erythromycin & Melafix.

.........................................

Fungal infections are usually the result of Achyla and/or Saprolegnia fungi.
Fungal often appear as hair like, fuzzy white cotton growth, most common on tissues damaged by injury, parasites and other disease. In general it needs necrotic tissue to feed on, but it can affect live tissue too.
Effective treatment(s) includes, thorough cleaning of the aquarium/filter(s), excellent water chemistry, Acriflavin, Triple Sulfas, Pimafix, QuickCure, Maraoxy, Paraguard and Salt... Salt works wonders with fungus.

..........................................

I'm going to work on adding info on the most common gram positive bacterial infection aquarist face, along with Aeromonas & Furunculosis.

[hbeth82]

Yeah, you're telling me - not sure what to do for this fish as he seems h*ll-bent on staying ill! Will say that the white cloudy stuff is gone from his eye, but now the same area is a reddish-copper color, not sure if that's better or worse. Just turned down the heater, had seen elsewhere that lower temps may help to slow progression. Also have aquarium salt and melafix on hand - is it okay to mix meds? Nobody else is in the tank so not worried about salt upsetting anyone but is it okay to mix Maracyn Plus with Melafix?

Thanks!

[ChileRelleno]

Originally Posted by hbeth82

Yeah, you're telling me - not sure what to do for this fish as he seems h*ll-bent on staying ill! Will say that the white cloudy stuff is gone from his eye, but now the same area is a reddish-copper color, not sure if that's better or worse. Just turned down the heater, had seen elsewhere that lower temps may help to slow progression. Also have aquarium salt and melafix on hand - is it okay to mix meds? Nobody else is in the tank so not worried about salt upsetting anyone but is it okay to mix Maracyn Plus with Melafix?

Thanks!

You can mix natural remedies such as Mela/Pimafix, salt, several of Kordon's natural remedies and etc with a Medication... But never mix actual medications/chemicals, e.g. Maracyn with QuickCure.

[hbeth82]

Originally Posted by ChileRelleno

You can mix natural remedies such as Mela/Pimafix, salt, several of Kordon's natural remedies and etc with a Medication... But never mix actual medications/chemicals, e.g. Maracyn with QuickCure.

Good to know, thanks. So do you think Maracyn Plus (2 capfuls every other day) + Melafix (5ml every day) + 2 tbsp aquarium salt now & more for PW = a possibly healthy Plinko?

Thanks for your help!

[ChileRelleno]

Honestly, if it were my fish, I'd euthanized a blind fish.

If I was to treat, I probably do about what your doing.