Both new bamboo shrimp died. What happened?

[Mike12345]

Hi,

Looking for someone who knows more about this particular type of shrimp, or a lot about shrimp in general.

I currently have 8 thriving amano shrimp, 6 Harlequins, 5 neon tetra, 2 rainbow tetra (I think), 2 ottos, 4 sword tails. Tank is 200L, planted.

Last week I bout a bamboo shrimp. Brought it home and acclimatised it the same as I did for the amanos, floated the bag for about 40 mins, then let it swim out. All afternoon and evening it moved from one spot to the next, and finally at night, rested on the sponge filter. It never once deployed its fans or tried to eat at all. (I assumed this was okay, as all my new amano shrimp went into hiding for 2 days before they became active and eating).
The next day it was floating (ish) upside down resting lightly on top of the sponge filter. Thinking it dead I nudged it with the tweezers. Nothing. Then lifted it out of the tank. I accidently dropped it back into the water, and its undercarriage fins spring to life and it propelled it's self to the bottom of the tank where it sat on the substrate. Okay, I thought, it must have been sleeping upside down... I called Pets@Home where I got the guy, they said there wasn't much to be done. While some fish stave to death from the stress of transport, its odd for a shrimp to do it. Just keep an eye on him and hope for the best.

The next day, it was definitely dead. Still hadn't tried to eat. I took it out and put it in a bowl of aquarium water (didn't want dead things in the tank in case they made the water toxic). After a few hours, it didn't move, on its side. I poked it. Nothing. tapped it eye with the tweezers. Nothing.

The conclusion was maybe the shrimp wasn't doing too great to begin with. I didnt see him fanning in the store, so probably had an issue.

I then bought a second one, picked one which was fanning in the store. Brought him home, did a longer acclimatization, including a water change. Floated him after the water change for at least 40 mins as well, so probably around 2 hours in total. Including letting some aquarium water in the bag and retying it.
When I let him out, he swam around and started fanning. Yeeeyyy.
By the even he had stopped fanning. And sat in a corner. Then was gone from site. Thats okay, shrimp do that.

Next day he was crawling all over the rocks, sat in the flow from the filter. But wasn't fanning. Watched him all day. Even put in some algae granules, nothing. Didnt fan at all. But he kept changing position.

Today, laid on his side at the bottom of the tank. Looking, for all intents and purposes, dead. Again.
This time, I'm not touching him. I dont know what to do. There is a lot of vague floating around the internet. Some people saying their shrimp looked dead for 5 days, or 3 days then sprung to life. Other people saying if they dont move when you poke them, they are dead. Other people saying buy bamboo shrimp in bulk of 5+ because half of them die. (hard to believe).
There is advice saying if there is a white ring around their neck then its a failed moult. Nope, not the case.

I dont know if this guy is dead, it certainly seems so. I dont know why they stop fanning. Some info says they were already starving in the store - sure, but then they would try hard to eat, not give up entirely.

I do use plant fertiliser, which has 0.0006 g of copper. Copper I know is toxic to shrimp, but its a tiny amount and the amano shrimp are thriving, so I dont think its that.

My parameters:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40-80 (comes out the tap at that level)
Ph between 7.4 and 7.8
Medium - hard water
25 degrees c.

Can anyone tell me whats happening? How do these shrimp behave / whats going on?

[shellyx]

Hi I keep these shrimp, the first thing I notice is your nitrate which is to high, what's your weekly pwc? How much do you take out? How long has the tank been running for?

[Aiken Drum]

Originally Posted by shellyx

Hi I keep these shrimp, the first thing I notice is your nitrate which is to high, what's your weekly pwc? How much do you take out? How long has the tank been running for?

I'll answer the question about his nitrate for him as he isnt about and i know the answer as its discussed in another post.

He has very high nitrate coming out of his tap, borderline illegally high levels. So water changes wont do anything to resolve that unless he goes with filtered water. He is trying out some other measures to go get nitrate down that seemingly arent having much effect as of yet.

Tank has been set up about a month and he is doing a fish in cycle.

[shellyx]

OK, if the tank isn't cycled then these guys won't survive as they need a lot of naturals in the tank, so it's possible that's what's going on.
Thanks

[Mike12345]

Tank isn't cycled?
What I have read is that a tank is cycled when there is enough bacteria in there to convert all the Ammonia into Nitrite, and then Nitrite into Nitrate. If this is happening and there is no ammonia and no nitrite, then it is cycled no?

Also, that still didn't explain anything. :/

I know that filter shrimp require a lot of nutrients in the tank. I assume this is what you meant by naturals. But if they aren't trying to eat them, logically a lack of them cannot be the issue?

[shellyx]

It says your tank has been running for a month? And your doing a fish in cycle, the tank will need to be mature before adding filter feeders in as they survive on naturals in the water. Maybe try again in 6mth I had the same happen to me.

[Mike12345]

I am worried that if its the nitrates (because they are really high right out of the tap), I could end up killing them again, even in 6 months.

If it isn't the nitrate, I am not sure. The algae granules I put in should have been enough to feed them each day. And people say it takes a long time for them to starve to death, more than 3 days.

[shellyx]

Yeah your nitrate is high which isn't good for them, what water conditioner do you use? Must be hard for you trying to keep that down especially when it's straight from the tap.

[Mike12345]

Sorry for the late reply. I use the API water conditioner. Removes chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals.

I've tried buying products for getting nitrate down, but they haven't had any effect yet. Also I've got plants in there, but the levels are so high they aren't putting a dent in it either.

[Aiken Drum]

Have you considered mixing bottled spring water with your tapwater to bring nitrate down. Or getting a filter fitted to your supply (possibly a good idea anyway if you are drinking the water) or buying filtered water? Most fish stores sell RO water if you dont want to get a filter which you can either mix with tap to improve it, or just remineralise and use it 100%. Maidenhead aquatics are pretty much everywhere in UK, they sell RO water. Are you in a position to collect rainwater? A couple of guys on here use rainwater to good effect.

[Mike12345]

I water change about 50 litres a week. I considered buying water, but that might be really expensive. I hadn't considered rainwater though. I'd be worried about introducing polutents and bacteria, but I'll give it some research, thanks.

Having spoken to someone in a Maidenhead aquatics store the other day, I think I may know what's killed the bamboo shrimp. He asked if I used water from the hot tap when getting the temperature right. I said yes, I hadn't read about any alternatives. He said that it probably contained more copper as hot water leeches it from the pipes more, and hot water also often sits in a copper tank. Where as cold water doesn't. Amano Shrimp, he says, as a lot more resilient to copper, so we're probably okay. But the bamboo shrimp would want to shed when I put them in, and as soon as they start to, the copper would poiswron them. I now boil (a lot of) water from the cold tap instead when doing water changes.

[shellyx]

I use hot water straight from my tap and mine are all fine? I hope it sorts out for you.
I definitely think it's the high nitrates.

[Aiken Drum]

Originally Posted by Mike12345

I water change about 50 litres a week. I considered buying water, but that might be really expensive. I hadn't considered rainwater though. I'd be worried about introducing polutents and bacteria, but I'll give it some research, thanks.

Having spoken to someone in a Maidenhead aquatics store the other day, I think I may know what's killed the bamboo shrimp. He asked if I used water from the hot tap when getting the temperature right. I said yes, I hadn't read about any alternatives. He said that it probably contained more copper as hot water leeches it from the pipes more, and hot water also often sits in a copper tank. Where as cold water doesn't. Amano Shrimp, he says, as a lot more resilient to copper, so we're probably okay. But the bamboo shrimp would want to shed when I put them in, and as soon as they start to, the copper would poiswron them. I now boil (a lot of) water from the cold tap instead when doing water changes.

How is your hot water heated? From a cyclinder with immersion heater? From an instantaneous boiler (more likely the case)? If instantaneous hot water then just run off hot water for a couple of minutes before adding to your tank to clear any water that may have sat in your pipework.

Im sceptical of this because hot water isnt normally sat in your pipework for any length of time. If its a copper cyclinder and old fashioned immersion heater then it might be more of a possibility.

[Mike12345]

Immersion heaters are the instant heat ones, they are probably fine. Most hot water in the UK is from a boiler unit, and the hot water sits in a water cistern, either in the loft or in an airing cupboard, typically made from copper on the inside. The only way to drain this is to empty around 1 and a half bath tubs of water from the hot water tap.

I've also looked into the rainwater idea. There's a lot of people saying it's too risky if it's a run off from you roof. The reasons seem to be air pollution, which is ch I already know, that's why you don't drink rainwater due to the toxins, and then pollution and bacteria from the roof and ducting. Advice is to scrub it down and clean it all regularly so that the water is cleaner before syphoning off. Which just seems like a mental amount of work.

Aye it could still be the nitrates. Does anyone know if there's a test for copper? That would prove or bust the theory.

[Aiken Drum]

https://www.swelluk.com/api-copper-t...8aAiO3EALw_wcB

[shellyx]

Yep I use the api copper test kit.

[Aiken Drum]

Water sat in a copper cyclinder is a bit old fashioned. I havent specified that type of system in years but will still be common in older housing stock. Usually hot water goes straight from the boiler to the tap, so running the water until it runs hot will clear any standing water in this circumstance. I agree if you have a cyclinder running the tap a few minutes won't drain off enough standing water. Depends on if you have a cyclinder or not.

[Mike12345]

Thanks guys, I've bought one of those test kits for copper. I kinda hope it is the issue, then can put it to bed. I'll post when the kit arrives and I do the test.