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Water Baby

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
26
Location
New Zealand
I need help. I have 5 goldfish in an established aquarium but the 3 older fish have been having health issues for the last 4 weeks. I have done all of the water tests and all levels are good except nitrite and ammonia were slightly high so I have today put nitrozorb in the filter. I have tried all of the following to help the sick fish as I initially thought they had a bacterial infection: melafix, pimafix and furan 2. They showed slight improvement with melafix but are now going downhill again. Symptoms in each are different: the worst is moving around on her side (was floating until today but as now sunk further down) and the only external symptom is what looks like popeye (greyish around eyes which are bulging slightly) - unfortunately she hasn't eaten in a couple of days. The next worst has slightly risen scales which are turning darker on the edges as well as the tip of his dorsel fin. He has red spots under his mouth in the gill area and one or two above one eye. He sits on the bottom but is eating. The other sits on the bottom and is eating but has red sores on his underside. This one and the one on it's side look irritated by something and dart around a bit. I have melafix and salt in there now and the redness on the fish seems to be improving but they still look uncomfortable. My other two much younger fish are very healthy. Please help if you can as I am so worried they are suffering. Much appreciated.
 
Types of Fish

The really sick one is a bronze fan, one is a pearl-scale/nymph cross and the other a calico fan. The baby ones are both fantails.
 
Water Baby said:
The tank is about 135 litres so a lot of room for my 5 fish

If they are commons, thats way too small
If they are fancies, that's too small
The tanks about thirty five gals
For commons, that wouldn't do for even one fish. You need 55 gals for the first,30 for every after
For fancies, that would be fine for two fish, maybe three. You need 20 gals for the first and 10 for every after
I bet that's the problem
 
Tank Size

They are fancies and I am told by pet shop experts that they have ample room. I am not familiar with gallons but I wonder if a US liter is the same measurement as a NZ litre? I will do some research.
 
Litre versus Liter

OK so they are the same measurement! I still don't think the tank size has anything to do with the illnesses though as the sick fish range in age from 5 to 7 years old and have been very healthy and happy until about 4 weeks a go. Any other ideas anyone?
 
Goldfish

I am logging off now to watch the Kiwi rowers. Please help me if you can as I will check this thread again soon. Thank you all :thanks:
 
208 liters or 55 gallons would be probably the minimum size you need for 5 Fancy goldfish. Thats even pushing it a bit. Very heavy filtration is also needed. I know thats not what you wanted to hear. I think water changes right now will be your best bet. I would do a heavy gravel cleaning and start with 50% partial water changes daily. Hopefully others will chime in about medications as that is not my strong point.
 
Goldfish

OK thanks. I am doing regular water changes and have syphoned the stones in the bottom today before adding aquarium salt and melafix. I am using Stress Coat and Stress Zyme too.
 
208 liters or 55 gallons would be probably the minimum size you need for 5 Fancy goldfish. Thats even pushing it a bit. Very heavy filtration is also needed. I know thats not what you wanted to hear. I think water changes right now will be your best bet. I would do a heavy gravel cleaning and start with 50% partial water changes daily. Hopefully others will chime in about medications as that is not my strong point.

Agreed! This is the absolute minimum size but a 250l would be even better. What are your exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph? What are you using to test (liquid or strips)? ANY amount of ammonia and/or nitrite is not healthy and fancies are very sensitive to their water conditions.

Start by addressing the issue with large daily water changes as suggested (no less than 50%). Fixing water quality issues should be the first step in getting your fish healthy. Unhealthy water equals unhealthy fish with suppressed immune systems that are subject to illness. I posted this on another forum but it covers goldfish basics (http://www.myaquariumclub.com/goldfish-101-11174823.html). Please ask if you have any questions! :)
 
Thanks for your advice. Readings yesterday were:
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

I have since put Nitrozorb in the filter which will fix the ammonia and nitrate levels to normal. I did a 40% water change yesterday and added more aquarium salt and melafix. The thing is you can't do water changes every day and add melafix as I need to do a 7 day cycle before a change. The Nitrozorb should mean that this is OK with the melafix treatment able to help. I did try melafix about 4 weeks a go and they showed some improvement so I'm hoping combined with the Nitrozorb they may improve more. Very worried about the bronze fan not eating though, I don't know how long a fish can last without food? Still feeding the others an anti-bacterial food I made in case it is an internal bacterial infection going on.
 
Nitrasorb is a bandaid to water quality issues. Most of your fish issues honestly sound like they are the result of a water quality issue. Black scales & fins are the result of ammonia burns. There is no treatment for this other than lots of healthy water & time. Scales sticking out is very concerning & indicates possible dropsy- there is no ready cure for this & its almost always fatal. Bottom sitting/floatiness are buoyancy issues that can be directly related to water quality & diet- addressing both of these issues can sometimes help limit the issue but its not guarentee. There is no other treatment for buoyancy issues beyond this unless you enlist the aid of an aquatic vet (and even this will constitute extreme measures). The sores are likely a gram negative bacterial infection that needs to be addressed with antibiotics- melafix is not an antibiotic and may be further contributing to the issue here. Fancies are known for having bad (or even lethal) reactions to melafix. Popeye has numerous causes with water quality & internal bacterial infection being foremost when its both eyes; its also a precursor to dropsy.

Feeding antibiotic medicated food (depending on the med) is the only thing may be of some help here. What exactly are you using? The problem is there are multiple issues that require different types of treatment and not everything is compatible and not everything is compatible at the same time. Aq salt can aggravate both dropsy & popeye although it will be of some help with the sores. A kanamycin med food will help with the sores but not with popeye or dropsy. I honestly would stick with water changes along with the med food & hope for the best. Good luck & please ask if you have any questions!
 
Thanks JLK - very helpful advice there. I did another 40% water change yesterday and retested the water this morning. Tests show no ammonia now which is great and nitrate at only 5ppm. I think the 2 ground dwellers are looking a little less stressed and and the scales not sticking out as much as they were on the one fish. I'm wondering if the black ammonia burns on the edges of the scales were giving more of an impression of them sticking out more than what they actually were. The bronze fan is still mid-floating around on one side though, the greyishness around her eyes is getting less but she is still not eating and is looking stressed. I've tried hand-feeding but she spits the food out but at least by doing this some may get inside her! What water temperature would you recommend while all this is going on? It is currently winter here and the water temp is about 15 degrees celcius. I know it should be more like 18-20 so I got a heater last week but unfortunately it has a faulty switch so I need to swap it. I had risen the temp to 20 degrees when it was working. The food I have made up is a gel food recipe with natural antibiotic which I found online - it contains spirulina flakes, peas, parsley, garlic, acidophilus, fish oil, and liquid chlorophyll which I blend together with some gelatin and water. I feed them this twice daily. Please let me know of any other antibiotic food/medication you are aware of which may help. I haven't seen any in pet shops here but maybe I can order it online. Thanks.
 
Thanks for the info! Ok, your temp is on the low side- 15c is @59f. This is almost low enough that I would suggest not feeding them because their metabolism/digestion is functioning at a snails pace right now & this may be affecting the buoyancy issues because undigested/improperly digested food will sit in the intestines & ferment. I like to keep my guys in the 72-75f range (21-24c). Swapping out the malfunctioning heater would be a good idea here!

Ok, I am taking a guess here that you reside in country that may be strict in respect to fish meds. I can offer suggestions for meds but I am not sure what you have available to you (if anything). We can try & figure out something here if fish meds are not readily available! I am glad your seeing a bit of improvement & your ammonia is zero- this is a big step in the right direction! I am also glad your feed them a homemade gel food- thats great! Once you are able to gradually increase their temp, you should consider adding some protien to the recipe. They really need some amount of protien for ideal health & growth. Let me know what country your in (i dont need anything more specific than this) & we can figure out what the next step should be. :)
 
I have just replaced the heater and am boosting them up to 18c today, then will go to 21c tomorrow.

I am in New Zealand. I have tried melafix (as you say maybe not the best thing for fancy goldfish), pimafix and furan 2 - all supposedly for bacterial infections. They showed some improvement (the 2 with the red sores) using all of these but were not cured (probably because of the other causes you mentioned).

I have bloodworms which I will feed them as well since they are full of protein.

Thanks
 
Thanks! Ok, I could not find specific info on what exactly may be available to you for meds. The other issue is what I would use to treat the sores is different than what I would use to try & treat popeye /dropsy. If you have furan2, I would do another course of this & lets see how everyone is doing at the end of treatment. If you get the sores healing well, you can try another med such as metronizadole to further address internal infection. But, be religious on testing your water daily- antibiotics do not discriminate between good & bad bacteria & water changes may be necessary to keep toxins in check. Good luck!!
 
Did another water change last night and have added pimafix again since this if for internal and external bacterial infections. I will test the water daily and see how they go on this. Not sure if I need to keep doing water changes though if the levels stay good?
 
Update: My pearlscale/nymph cross has died :( I thought the bronze fan was making a miracle recovery as she went from swimming around on her side to looking normal but she is still not eating. The other remains the same, on the bottom, eating but not moving around much. This one darts to the top now and then and the bronze fan fin flicks, both looking a little irritated sometimes. The main worry is the not eating, I've tried all kinds of food but no appetite. Does anyone know what the fin flicking/twitching could mean? Thanks
 
PS: I am still doing frequent water changes and checking the levels which are all OK. Ammonia nil and nitrate around 5 ppm, no nitrite. Still using pimafix/melafix combined but the water changes probably affect their effectiveness.
 
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