Saltwater & Reef

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishguy2727

If that med is not working I wouldn't keep using it.

Starting over like that will only throw things off, they have it and even if you put them in a truly sterile tank they would bring it right in with them.

Really? I thought that because they'd be transfered into a crystal-clear tank with everything washed down and bacteria free that they'd be better off...

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogburn

change 75% of the water... slowly SLOWLY raise the temp maybe 2 degrees a day at the most... 1 degree every 12 hours til you hit 90 degrees... that will kill all ich... leave it at 90 degrees for a week to 10 days... then slowly decrease the temp exactly the same way to get it back to where you normally keep it... i have 2 tanks a 29gal and a 180 gal... ive had ich in both and cured ich exactly the same way in both tanks without any medications... you already started with medications but just change a large portion of the water to get as much out as you can and do the temp. trust me it works

Thanks Cog,

Should I definitely do the 75% water change even if I don't do the heat method? And should I keep using the Rid Ich and Stability through this all? What about salt?

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 03:55 PM

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I just don't know what to do at this point...water changes, keep using the medication, use more salt, use Prime, use/don't use Stability...

I'm going nuts. My overwhelming instinct is just to remove these fish and completely start over with this tank, scrubbing everything really good to get rid of bacteria, etc. and then returning the three goldies to the tank, but I have been instructed by knowledgeable folks on here that this method isn't what I should do because of the ich still attached to the fish...

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:00 PM

i would change a large portion of the water at least 75% just to get rid of as much of the chemicals in the water column as possible

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:05 PM

and yes stop all the chemicals... just raise the temp to 90 and leave it there for 10 days... thats all you need to do... the life cycle of ich involves it falling off fish then reinfecting them... at 90 degrees when it falls off the fish its too hot for it to live.. the parasite actually explodes and dies... leaving it at 90 degrees for 10 days will ensure that all of the parasites explode and die... imo its the best and safest method... i tried chemicals the first time too to no avail... raised the temp and all was well

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogburn

i would change a large portion of the water at least 75% just to get rid of as much of the chemicals in the water column as possible

Okay. I need to go out and get a syphon tube/gravel vac; once I remove about 75% of the water, what do I do next? Replace the water with fresh tap water? Do I treat the tap water BEFORE or AFTER it's added to the tank with Prime or Aqueon Conditioner that I have?

Once that's done, what do I do about my filter pads? Definitely still remove the carbon? And what about medication, salt and Stability at this point...are they continued?

Thank you for your ongoing assistance...I'm trying to save these Orandas...

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogburn

and yes stop all the chemicals... just raise the temp to 90 and leave it there for 10 days... thats all you need to do... the life cycle of ich involves it falling off fish then reinfecting them... at 90 degrees when it falls off the fish its too hot for it to live.. the parasite actually explodes and dies... leaving it at 90 degrees for 10 days will ensure that all of the parasites explode and die... imo its the best and safest method... i tried chemicals the first time too to no avail... raised the temp and all was well

Okay thank you...

But is raising the temp okay for goldfish? Also, should I raise the temp once I do this first massive water change, right? That's when it should start?

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:14 PM

i have well water... i do not have to dechlorinate... but... i do believe most people add the conditioner in as they fill the tank... i do think the temp raise will be okay for goldfish as long as its done slowly... 1 degree every 12 hours and it shouldnt be an issue... just make sure there is alot of aeration as stated before

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:16 PM

yes refill the tank to full with treated water... you do not have to remove any carbon or anything... temperature alone is what will kill the ich... dont change anyting else.... just run your tank as you did before the ich just at the temp of 90 degrees

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogburn

i have well water... i do not have to dechlorinate... but... i do believe most people add the conditioner in as they fill the tank... i do think the temp raise will be okay for goldfish as long as its done slowly... 1 degree every 12 hours and it shouldnt be an issue... just make sure there is alot of aeration as stated before

There is indeed a great deal of aeration via two Top Fin bubble wands connected to a Whisper 60 air pump...

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogburn

yes refill the tank to full with treated water... you do not have to remove any carbon or anything... temperature alone is what will kill the ich... dont change anyting else.... just run your tank as you did before the ich just at the temp of 90 degrees

When you say "treated" water, you mean adding either the water conditioner or the Seachem Prime, correct?

And are you sure it's safe to stop the meds cold turkey like that -- as long as I am heating the water? What about salt with it?

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:37 PM

yes... stop all meds... drain 75% water... refill tank while adding dechlorinator... when full start raising the temp 1 degree every 12 hours til you hit 90 degrees... leave it at 90 degrees for 10 days... or until you see 0 trace of ich for at least 5 days then slowly go back down 1 degree every 12 hours til you get back to your desired temp and all ich should be gone... that should completely solve the problem...

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:37 PM

salt is not necessary

cogburn · 10-05-2010, 04:40 PM

just to be safe... when you refill leave the water level a little lower than usual... maybe 1-2" that will add aeration cuz you can never have enough aeration and you want to be sure theres enough... also remember ich looks much worse before it gets better so dont be alarmed if it looks bad... just get the temp up there and leave it and trust me it will work

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 04:48 PM

Thanks so much for your help thus far, Cog -- I really appreciate it; I want to stop the medication method as I think all this is doing is harming the fish at this point and just stuffing the whole ecosystem with the blue/green dye...

I know this is going to sound stupid, but when you say heat the water, this should be done by buying an aquarium heater and sumberging it into the tank, no? I'll also need a thermometer, yes?

taylorodw · 10-05-2010, 05:20 PM

Go ahead and use Stability if your medication doesn't say to avoid it. It may work, and if it does it will be beneficial to your tank at this point. Follow the instructions.

Replace what salt you take out in each water change. So a 50% change will remove half the salt (15 tsp), in 30 gallons of water for your 60 gallon tank.

Use prime in large, frequent water changes, at a double dose. This will detoxify most ammonia and some nitrite. The salt will greatly help with the nitrite.

Continue the meds as described in the instructions. If they mention specifically when to perform water changes, then do as it says. If no mention of water changes is made, then use your best judgement and try to keep parameters (ammonia and nitrite) under control.

Remember that just like a 50% change will remove 50% of the salt, a 50% water change will remove half of the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in the aquarium as well.

Does that help?

Osage_Winter · 10-05-2010, 05:23 PM

The thing is, this seems like contradictory advice as compared to someone who is giving me salt-less/medicine-less instruction over on the "sick fish" section of the site...

He is suggesting only treat the ich with HEAT at this point, and to do a massive water change -- like 75% at this point. He even suggested salt is unnecessary.