Cichlid tank is in trouble... help!

[Madame_X]

I've lost two of my cichlids this week due to what now appears to be columnaris. I came home tonight, and one of my danios is near death. My adorable polit has mouth fungus...

At this point, I feel I need to treat the entire tank. I already treated the tank with Kanacyn a couple of weeks ago when I first suspected a problem. It obviously didn't help. I want to try Jungle Fungus Clear, but it has furazolidone and nitrofurazone, which will kill my biofilter.

I'm thinking of moving my biowheels to an empty 10 gallon tank to keep them wet, but how long will the bacteria live without a source of food? What if I dump some food in the tank every day?

I'm so upset... We do weekly water changes of 15 gallons (in a 55 gallon tank) and always gravel the vacuum as thoroughly as possible. How come others who aren't so religious with their water changes can go and never have this happen?

For the record... 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 40ppm nitrates, PH 8.0.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :

 

[Menagerie]

Treat the entire tank right away. Place your filters in the empty tank and add small amounts of straight ammonia to feed the bacteria.
I like what this site has to say about diseases because they give causitive agents and meds used to treat:
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm


From mongabay

Mouth Fungus, Columnaris (Chondrococcus, Cytophaga)
S: Despite its misleading common name, mouth fungus is actually caused by bacteria. Patches of cotton-like patches develop around the mouth, but also on the head, fins, gills, and body. As the disease progresses, open sores develop.
A: Raise the water temperature. Several different courses of action can be taken including a 30 minute bath in 1 ppm potassium permanganate (10 Mg/L); the addition of Malachite green; or the addition Nifurpirinol. Frequent partial water changes are important.

Since you are dealing with a bacteria, do not treat with Jungle Fungus Clear. Stick with one of these:
• Kanacyn
• Furacyn
• Spectrogram
• Intensive Care (During Treatment)
• Vitamix

I know kanamycin based meds can be mixed with food and I strongly urge you to do that. Get some blood worms and put the meds in the blood worm juices and then add some flake food to soak up the extra juices and feed to the fish.

Keep us updated.

 

[BrianNY]

IMO your nitrates appear to be on the high side. I'm wondering what's causing this? Have you added any fish or plants recently? Your water change routine is excellent but how often do you clean your filters?

 

[Madame_X]

Thanks, both for the suggestions. I took one bio-wheel out of each filter (there are four total in the tank) and put them in the spare 10 gallon. I will start feeding that tank with ammonia tonight.

Menagerie, I tried the Kanacyn with no luck (5 days straight, not every other day as suggested on the package) but I lost fish about a week after that course of medication. The Jungle Fungus Clear is sort of misnamed, probably because most people assume their fish has a fungus when in fact it is a bacterial problem. Fungus Clear contains Nitrofurazone (same as Furacyn) and Furazolidone, as well as potassium dichromate (which I hope will have a similar affect as potassium permanganate). It is actually recommended as a cure for bacterial infections. Unfortunately, its going to stain the heck out of the tank (it turned the water bright green).

Sadly, the Aquatronics meds are extremely difficult to come by locally or I would have tried Furacyn. The only fish store that I've been able to find them at told me that Aquatronics went out of business and they wouldn't be able to get them anymore. I know that isn't true as I called Aquatronics directly, but there must be some sort of distribution problem getting them lately.

Brian, the only explanation I have for my nitrates being on the high side is that the tank WAS somewhat crowded (mostly due to adding the dither fish) and unfortunately has an extremely large population of malaysian trumpet snails adding to the load. But with the losses of fish I've recently experienced, I don't think it will be quite so crowded anymore.

I just hope I don't lose any more.

 

[Menagerie]

I tried the Kanacyn with no luck

The only reason I suggested it again, was because I know you can feed to to fish and it worked wonders for me once, but I wasn't dealing with columnaris.
A little green coloring in the tank seals will go away in a few years

 

[Madame_X]

Thanks, Menagerie, and since I do have some Kanacyn left (but not enough to treat the entire tank again), I will certainly try your suggestion in the food. I have some freeze-dried bloodworms at home--wonder if I could soak them in a cup with the medicine until they're hydrated?

I am willing to do whatever it takes to save my fish and I certainly appreciate the advice!

I already lost my female polit and I don't want to lose my cute little male... he's just the cutest little fish. Fortunately, he is still eating (at least, he was last night).

 

[Menagerie]

It might be best to get some frozen worms or shrimps. That way the "juices" are tastier and when the meds are mixed it, the fish maybe more ready to eat it.

 

[Madame_X]

Here's the latest as of this morning...

Another one of my danios didn't look too good this morning. The polit, although his mouth is a white mess, is not acting any different and he still has a strong appetite. I think I noticed white on my leleupi's mouth this morning as well.

I'm feeding with oxytetracycline laced food--does anyone know what the shelf life is on something like this? Although the package on the Jungle medication says to wait four days before adding a second dose, I think I'm going to do a water change tonight (day 3) and add a second dose. If I don't see an improvement in the mouth fungus, I'm going to try another antibiotic but I'm not sure which one. I really think the Jungle product was a good move, though, because in my reading it seems to indicate that the potassium dichromate is an oxidizer (like potassium permanganate) and even if it doesn't kill whatever is growing on the fish's mouth, it may very well reduce whatever populations of the bacteria are lingering in the tank.

Testing for ammonia daily... so far so no indication of a spike.

Losing the cichlids is tough... we've had most of them for almost a year. I sure hope I can save the ones that are left. I feel completely helpless.

 

[Menagerie]

Don't jump from med to med, give it a chace to work! The other thing you can add if you dont' have scaless fish is Melafix. That's to help keep down secondary infections and it may help with the fungus. I wish there was more I could do to help.

 

[Madame_X]

Well, no changes to report so I guess no news is good news. My exasperatus (both) have not come out to feed for a few days and I'm worried about them. I can see them, but they've always been horribly skittish and won't come out if I'm near the tank.

The polit is just a little piggie, begging for food constantly and is not acting any worse for the wear, nor is the leleupi despite a tiny bit of white that's visible on his lower lip. If anything, the polit's mouth looks slightly better, although maybe that's just wishful thinking. The danios are still hanging in there.

I know I shouldn't change meds... I guess that's just the frustration talking. I don't think I should treat with the Jungle product for more than the recommended two doses because of the potassium dichromate, although I've noticed no stress from any of my fish during the treatment. I'm just worried about the synodontis as I know they're sensitive to meds.

I'm staying on track with what I've been doing for now. Hopefully, I'll start to see some results in the next couple of days.

Thanks for checking in on my rambling...

 

[Menagerie]

It may be that the meds take a bit to kick in. If this is the case, you should start to see improvement in the next day or so.

 

[Madame_X]

Well, I lost one of the exasperatus tonight... The other one still won't come out and eat.

I'm seeing a pattern here. Three of the four fish who have died were all very skittish, as is the remaining exasperatus. Perhaps the danios were stressed too--they didn't hide but they swim so fast, who knows? My leleupi, male polit, synodontis and plecos are NOT skittish. I'm guessing the fact that these fish have lived for months in fear (from being picked on by the brichardis, since moved to another tank) has them so stressed out, they haven't been able to fight off whatever is going on in this tank.

One of the danios has apparent fungus on its tail now, too. Since I see improvement in the polit, I'm thinking of pulling out the danios completely. They're just not improving (obviously, they're getting worse) and they may be reinfecting the other fish. Personal attachment aside, I've got a lot of money in the polit and two synodontis, and I really don't want to lose them.

*sigh* What to do, what to do...