Clamped discus gill

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TomCarter13

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Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
168
Hi guys,

One my new discus is breathing quite fast and only out of one gill :( it's weird though because he is showing his colour beautifully, he is never hiding and is always with the other discus, he doesn't have any clamped fins, he is eating very well, he is not scratching, dashing, or flashing, none of the other fish have it? As a matter of fact he is still showing signs of trying to pair up?

He was shipped to me about 3 days ago so maybe he could just have a sore gill from the shipping? He did have it slightly clamped when i released him into my aquarium. Since then i have treated aquarium with formalin and a little bit if salt and it seems to have done okay because this morning the big guy was breathing normally aswell as using his gills normally again but just after lunch he clamped it again.

The only symptoms is he is breathing fast and is only really breathing out if one gill?

Please help :( i don't know whats wrong.





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Okay cool! I will prepare everything!


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Not sure why? But it stays at 6.4-6.5 all the time in my main tank? Even when doing larger water changes?? I think it is because of the 3 big pieces of driftwood that keep it down so low.


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I'm pretty sure shipping may have stressed him out and his immune system was down so he caught gill flukes.

By the way..
It has almost been a week of him in quarantine and he hasn't really got any better. It is still the same symptom which is just a clamped gill and breathing faster.

On Sunday when i put him in quarantine i did over 50% water changes daily but did not see much apart from about a whole day and a bit i saw him breathing fine and using both gills and i thought that he was almost better. Then by tuesday i dosed in some praziquantel and for the next three days i kept doing water changes and then putting more prazi in the water every day until i realised nothing seemed to be working well. Then, yesterday i thought that i would do a 75% water change and i dosed in some more prazi and now i will wait a couple of days before my next water change to see if that works?

I hate how whatever they have is so difficult to get rid of.

Any tips i would really appreciate.


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Also, does anyone know how long it can usually take to get the fish at full health again? Or does it depend on the fish?


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Out of interest what was the cause? If possible?


It's believed that it was stress induced from shipping, but not 100% certain.

I'm pretty sure shipping may have stressed him out and his immune system was down so he caught gill flukes.

By the way..
It has almost been a week of him in quarantine and he hasn't really got any better. It is still the same symptom which is just a clamped gill and breathing faster.

On Sunday when i put him in quarantine i did over 50% water changes daily but did not see much apart from about a whole day and a bit i saw him breathing fine and using both gills and i thought that he was almost better. Then by tuesday i dosed in some praziquantel and for the next three days i kept doing water changes and then putting more prazi in the water every day until i realised nothing seemed to be working well. Then, yesterday i thought that i would do a 75% water change and i dosed in some more prazi and now i will wait a couple of days before my next water change to see if that works?

I hate how whatever they have is so difficult to get rid of.

Any tips i would really appreciate.


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Without a true identification from a scope, treatment based on a symptoms only can be more harm than good. That's why I suggested treating only with clean water before introducing any meds. More like a two week period. It's quite possible that you've killed off the actual flukes (if they are the culprit) but the appearance of not "getting better" is symptomatic of the actual hooks still being in place, attached to the gill filament.

Prazi is a very effective treatment for many problems, but many Discus keepers have mixed results when it comes to treating for flukes. Most will choose to go with potassium permanganate. But again, ruling out water quality is first and foremost. And while we're at it here, please refresh me on what color and texture this one is eliminating as I can't remember.


Also, does anyone know how long it can usually take to get the fish at full health again? Or does it depend on the fish?


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This isn't the easiest answered question. Especially when it comes to flukes. The fish should be treated for 14 days (or as specified) depending on the strength/dosage being used. Always follow suggested rates and times.

It is possible for total eradication of flukes, but on a single HT/QT setup it just won't happen. You'd need have multiple tanks, lots of time, and (for sterilization, not consumption) alcohol. Understanding the life cycle will help understand treatment and while doing research in regards to Discus, it was determined by both Soh and Untergasser that the eggs are killed by the alcohol AND 3 days of drying time. Therefore the need for multiple tanks and time.


What also escapes me is your present location. Where did you get these from and do you know where that person/store got them from ?


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It's believed that it was stress induced from shipping, but not 100% certain.




Without a true identification from a scope, treatment based on a symptoms only can be more harm than good. That's why I suggested treating only with clean water before introducing any meds. More like a two week period. It's quite possible that you've killed off the actual flukes (if they are the culprit) but the appearance of not "getting better" is symptomatic of the actual hooks still being in place, attached to the gill filament.

Prazi is a very effective treatment for many problems, but many Discus keepers have mixed results when it comes to treating for flukes. Most will choose to go with potassium permanganate. But again, ruling out water quality is first and foremost. And while we're at it here, please refresh me on what color and texture this one is eliminating as I can't remember.





This isn't the easiest answered question. Especially when it comes to flukes. The fish should be treated for 14 days (or as specified) depending on the strength/dosage being used. Always follow suggested rates and times.

It is possible for total eradication of flukes, but on a single HT/QT setup it just won't happen. You'd need have multiple tanks, lots of time, and (for sterilization, not consumption) alcohol. Understanding the life cycle will help understand treatment and while doing research in regards to Discus, it was determined by both Soh and Untergasser that the eggs are killed by the alcohol AND 3 days of drying time. Therefore the need for multiple tanks and time.


What also escapes me is your present location. Where did you get these from and do you know where that person/store got them from ?


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I live in the north island of New zealand and i purchased the discus from a breeder who imports high quality fish into his stock. I'm not to sure on where he imports unfortunately.

And were you asking about the colour and texture of the prazi? If so, it is a white liquid but it kind of clumps once in the aquarium so i have to mix with some aquarium water first.


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No I was asking the about the fishes poop, lol.

I thought you were in Canada for some reason and was concerned but not something for you to worry about then.


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Oh hahaha! The poop is fine. It's normal brown colour and it's not stringy. It's normal poop haha.


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Lol, good to hear. Keep up with the meds for the length on the directions and we'll take it from there. I would continue to keep it in QT for a bit afterwards depending on how it seems.


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Yes i definitely will.

I hope he gets better soon though. I miss seeing him in the big tank with his friends haha.


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So just a quick question.. Can ammonia effect the gills on discus?? Like can it maybe burn a gill causing the fish to breath harder through the other? Because as much as i would hate to admit it and i hope no one tells me off but after putting that formalin in my new big tank. It cause a recycle and the ammonia has gone up to 0.5. After that happened, all the other fish slowly started to breath through one gill. Also, before the ammonia started to rise on the big tank and i only had one fish in quarantine. The fish in quarantine started to come right. Like for a day or 2 he was breathing fine through both gills and everything. But then the ammonia started to hit the quarantine tank (hasn't been cycled yet) and he started breathing through one gill but would swap gills aswell. Unfortunately bad stuff happens and it happened to all hit me bad all at once. I should've known about the formalin and cycling the quarantine but it has all happened now so there is nothing i can do about what i did but if anyone knows anything then please let me know.


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Do you have readings for both DT and QT for temp, ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Just to cross these off. I assume you tap water (?) used for water changes has no ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?
 
Yes, DT readings:

Ph 6.4-6.5
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm

QT:

Ph: 7.0
Ammonia 0.5ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates 10ppm

Could it be the ammonia bugging them? It makes more sense that it might be the ammonia that is making them irritated.

Thanks


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Yes, DT readings:

Ph 6.4-6.5
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm

QT:

Ph: 7.0
Ammonia 0.5ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates 10ppm

Could it be the ammonia bugging them? It makes more sense that it might be the ammonia that is making them irritated.

Thanks


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Normally I'd say at that ph most of the ammonia is ammonium but I don't have the link with me to check. However I assume your tank temp is higher for discus (which means more ammonia, not ammonium) and it's just an average - some fish could be more sensitive and it may be adding to their woes.

Anyways, I assume tap water is fine so more water changes I'm afraid.

Was the formalin from a medicine brand? I've dosed MG and formalin with no issues but perhaps new tank and the nitrifying bacteria would be sluggish at low ph.
 
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