Do I try and treat it, or do I euthanize?

[Kat1103]

If the fish die, you will have some bacteria in the tank. Either add some panty hose with fish food or pure ammonia to help finish the cycle. I used some cheap danios in my tank (most on here won't advise this) to cycle and they didn't die.

[CaptainMako]

All right, I'm finally getting it.
So the only difference with fishless would just be putting raw ammonia or ammonia-occuring substances into the tank, and continue with the testing and PWC's as before?

And, the PWC question on the last page.

As for where I live, it is pretty nice. Just wish I had more LFS options than Petco. There is a FANTASTIC saltwater place here, but alas I'm just barely figuring out freshwater.

[Kat1103]

Cycling a tank can be stressful. Don't obsess over the number "zero". your tank will cycle. It just takes time. And don't break your back by doing daily water changes.

[Kat1103]

I think you're getting it

[CaptainMako]

It took long enough. Good lord I'm slow.
Still looking for a % for PWC's and how often I should do them, to both treat my fish AND continue the cycling harmoniously.

[Kat1103]

I wouldnt do more than 25% at a time and maybe 3-4 a week until it's cycled but this is in my experience and opinion

[CaptainMako]

I'll run that idea by others, it seems reasonable to me but I have to consider the medications. Finally someone considers the fact that I can't haul ungodly amounts of water every day.

[CaptainMako]

Okay, here is hopefully the FINAL set of instructions. I'm sorry that it took an ungodly amount of time to get into my head. Please look over these and tell me changes were necessary.

Tank
<U>Goals

• </U>

• Cure your fish of whatever is causing their symptoms of pop-eye, fungus and shredded tail fins.
• Successfully cycle your tank with your mollies, by keeping them alive.

Your situation
Your mollies are becoming sick because of your water conditions. You were skimpy on both testing and PWC's before just a little while ago. This over-exposure to ammonia caused their immune systems to be weakened and susceptible to disease, this is why they are sick.
Not all may be lost however. Using a fungal treatment and a pop eye medication will cure them, along with frequent PWC's between 25-50%. These changes must not interfere with the medicine's ability to dissolve and enter the fish.
You have also, unknowingly, been cycling your tank by allowing the ammonia to go unchecked and with your inconsistent PWC pattern. This presents an opportunity to both treat your fish, and cycle your tank so they do not become sick again.
Cycling
Cycling is the process by which beneficial, waste biproduct-eating bacteria are built up in your tank. These, along with PWC's, get rid of a substance called nitrates. The pattern goes like this.
Fish/Ammonia-inducing substance releases ammonia.
Ammonia breaks down into nitrites.
Nitrites break down into nitrates.
A cycled tank's bacteria colony eats nitrates, but routine PWC's also filter them out.
This is necessary because ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all toxic to fish. Nitrates are the least toxic.
Your instructions
These are your instructions, specific to you, to hopefully both treat your fish and cycle your tank.

• Acquire a testing kit for nitrites, and pop eye medication.

• You will be performing water changes, with respect to the medication until the fish are cured, based upon your ammonia and nitrite readings. Test your water for both of these once a day, and perform water changes, depending on readings, until both are getting consistent readings of zero. (Kat1103 suggests 25% water changes, around 3 to 4 times a week, with respects to medication.) By then, cycling is finished and the bacteria colony has been established.

• If cycling is finished and the fish are alive, life returns to normal, and PWC's become more regular.If fish are lost along the way, proceed with the fishless method. This entails the same thing as fish method, but instead just feeding raw ammonia or ammonia-inducing substances to the bacteria inside the tank.

• Wait a period of time before introducing new fish to your tank. This will both give the fish some time, if they are alive, and insure that their sickness is gone. Make sure that if the fish are dead and even if cycling is done, that you feed the bacteria ammonia somehow.

[CaptainMako]

All right. Am I finally done?

[librarygirl]

Hi! I'm sorry about your fish. I'm a bit new here, like you I didn't know about cycling when I bought my tank. PetSmart said my water was "good" and gave me fish. I then tried cycling with fish for a month. Kept ammonia down under 0.25 but the tank showed no signs of cycling. I went nuts with worry and many water change sometimes multiple times per day. Unfortunately my fish didn't last and I'm going fishless now. I hope your story turns out better.

From the little I know (and you may want to wait for someone else to either refute what I say or agree with it) with cycling you really have to watch your levels which can spike quickly. IMO 25% water changes a few times a week won't be enough. At the very least you should test water daily to make sure ammonia, nitrites,nitrites are at a safe level. If they are not, do another pwc even if it's more than a few times a week (trust me, it will be). Now, you have another snag which is the medications. I haven't had that experience so far so I can't speak to that. Sorry I can't help further. Good luck.

[Kat1103]

not sure if you read this part of cycling yet or understand it, but I'll mention it anyways.
1. you will get ammonia in your tank and it will spike.
2. Then you will get nitrite in your tank and that will spike too.
3. You will then see nitrates in your tank.
4. Ammonia will drop to zero. This could take a few days to a week or so.
5. Then Nitrite will drop to zero. This will probably take longer than the ammonia did.
6. Nitrates will rise and your cycle will be complete.

[CaptainMako]

So I am going to be looking for testing kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, as well as a medication for pop eye?
I can't get them tonight, but I have a guarantee to get them tomorrow.
Because of that, what should I do tonight? I was thinking a 25% change and another dose of the anti fungal treatment.

[nohika]

You want to keep your ammonia and nitRITES under .25 ppm. More than that will start burning the gills of your fish.

[CaptainMako]

Mgh.
So it's pretty much a given the fish will have to be sick if I am cycling with them inside?

[CaptainMako]

Or, is it just possible for me to drop the entire cycling thing and just begin doing PWC's to treat the mollies? Then once they are cured get into regular PWC's but without a cycled tank?

[Maya]

Your tank is going to cycle whether you participate or not.

[CaptainMako]

Eh. I'll just keep going as before and have to accept that I am stuck with a fish-in cycle like it or not.

[dskidmore]

The % PWC should be dependant on your test results. If you have just above .25, this is just slightly stressful and a small water change is fine, or maybe you can put off a larger change to tomorrow. If you have 4.0, then your fish are in severe stress, and a 50% change is in order. Never change more than 50% at once, and always dechlorinate the new water. Chlorine kills the bacteria needed for the cycle. You start over if you kill them. Even if you have a 4.0 reading, give several hours between 50% changes to get things back below .25. Even bad water is better for fish than a sudden shock. When doing a large water change, you may even take a break between buckets to allow the fish to acclimate to the new water, and let the water in the bucket come up to room temperature if it was poured cold.

This assumes your #1 priority is saving the fish. If the #1 priority is getting the cycle over with, you can cut back on water changes, keep the ammonia around .5-1 and just see wether or not the fist survive the cycle. The fastest way to cycle is to let ammonia spike to 4.0, but your fish will almost certianly not survive that long term.

If the fish die, just keep putting in fish food like as though they are still there. Bacteria will fill in the place the fish had in the food chain. You'll even see fuzzy colonies growing on the food as it sits on the bottom.

[dskidmore]

P.S. I had one tank that I could never get below .25. My tap water turned out to test at .25, and water changes were bringing ammonia up rather than down. (Some water districts use chloramine, which contains ammonia, instead of straight chlorine.) I switched to prime as my dechlorinator which also detoxifies ammonia, and once the tank was mature it would bring the ammonia reading back down in a few hours.

[CaptainMako]

So all-in-all, the process is going to be rough on this fish if they stay in the tank? Would the better option be just moving them to the 1 gallon I have, or euthanizing them and continuing with a fishless cycle instead to save time and suffering?