Dying Angel?

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TEC5154

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
40
Location
Chicago
Hello. I was hoping someone could help me with a problem I am having with about an 18 month old Angel fish. I recently moved, and everyone made it fine except I noticed right away my Angel was acting a little strange. Now yesterday when I got home, the Angel was laying on the ground, still moving, but barely. So I fed the fish and sure enough, it came up to the top, ate, and then went back to the bottom, right where it was before, behind a rock, and layed down. I gave it the night to probably die :( and woke up at about 4am to get it out of the tank (my girlfriend is very emotional about the fish, so I wanted to get it out). It looked dead but as soon as I touched it with the net, it moved quickly, so I watched it for awhile, and it just went back and layed back down. My question is, do I give it a chance and wait till its completely dead or should I get it out of the tank? Is there anything I can do to give it a fighting chance? Please help! Thanks to everyone!
 
Sometimes, fish find very odd ways of sleeping. When you turned your lights on in the middle of the night, this could have been the case.

Do you have a water test kit? If so, what are the readings? Does it occasionally swim around? I'd give it some more time to "adjust" which could be all that it is doing, and with time things will improve. I would just make sure you try and keep as good water quality as possible.

Hope your fish makes it through.
 
Put the angel in a QT...bare bottomed with just a simple filter, heater, extra aeration and/or water flow and something for the fish to hide in. Add stress coat and observe.

You should test the main tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. Please post results. The first thing you want to do is rule in or out the condition of the water for this behavior, especially being you did move recently and the bio may be trying to re establish itself. Do not go by how any other fish are in the tank. You have one fish down now. Don't wait till you lose more...if you do...to check the water. Once the results ar posted, we can be of further help.

This is kind of tricky in sense because I have seen fish behave just like that and nothing ever appears wrong with them other than they lay down and look dead until you feed them or touch them and the water quality good. One in particular I remember was a red tail botia that did that. Never figured out what was wrong. This was at the store I work for. Every morning who ever did the DFR (dead fish run) would go to scoop him up and off he went zipping around the tank. His colors were even faded like a dead fish. Instead of blue, he was silver. Maybe the botia was old, but an 18 month old angel surely isn't an elderly. How do you know the age of this fish?
 
Thank you for your posts. I will not be able to check water quality till I get home later this evening. I really don't know either if I will be able to set up a QT. I just moved and really haven't even located the LFS. Also, TCT asked how I knew the fish was 18 months. I should have said I bought it 18 months ago. Any other suggestions? Ways to set up a make shift QT? Also, I was afraid of leaving a fish in the tank that might die and hurting some of my other fish! I left the Angel laying at the bottom of the tank at home before I left for work because I couldn't take it out while I knew it was still alive! Let me know! Thank you to everyone!
 
You can use a five gallon bucket that's never been exposed to chemicals or something similar as a temporary QT half filled with an airstone. The airstone is important. There must be a Petco, Petsmart or even (GASP) Walmart for getting something like an air pump, airline hose, and a dinky little 25 or 50 watt heater. Not like you're buying fish from them...LOL. Sorry...I never recommend Walmart, but in emergency cases such as this, even they can be useful.
 
Well, my girlfriend just called me at work and told me he was swimming around but by the time we got off the phone he was back laying at the bottom. I don't know what to do? Thank you all for your help!
 
The one thing not to do is panic. Just accept the fact that it may or may not die and that fish are easy to kill. They live in water. We don't. Learn from the experience for the next time something starts to appear wrong.

Perhaps your girlfriend can help if she has a way around to get to a store or test the water while you're at work. She might as well learn too.

Good luck.
 
Thanks TCT. What if the water is fine? Should I still put it in a QT?
 
The angel may still benefit from a QT depending if any other fish in the tank are picking on it. Many fish will pick at the weaker fish in the tank. What other fish do you have in there?
 
Well I went out and spent $40 on an $8 fish. I bought a 5gal tank, air pump, air stone, and some AmQuel (removes nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, cholamines, and chlorine). Everything was fine except my nitrates seemed a bit high. One time I measured it, it was at the unsafe, the next time it was still unsafe but lower. I put the angel in the QT with the whole setup. The stupid walmart didn't have a heater small enough so I'm going to add warm water as the temp gets too cool. He is kind of just laying at the bottom. I fed him a little bit and put some aquarium salt in there. He seems to be moving more than before. What about light though?...how much to feed?
 
Avoid using warm water when the temp gets cool. You are much better off with a steady lower temp than a temp that fluctuates. Get a heater once you can. Careful with aquarium salt. Do not over dose. Best to use a smaller half dose of salt. Angels being a SA fish do not like salt. Don't worry about light and feed very sparingly. I'd say about one minute worth of food every other day, split into two feeds. Do 25% water changes on the QT twice a week. This will help beat any ammonia levels.

What were the numbers for the test results on ammonia and nitrite?

Nitrate is the least toxic and actually not really toxic, but rather more of a disease problem when saturated. It may take some time to lower them. Amquel and any other conditioner that states it removes nitrate and even nitrite and aammonia really don't remove these things. Instead they seal the toxicity from the fish. I'm going to assume that there was an ammonia and nitrite spike, and perhaps that is when the angel started to act ill. All ammonia eventually becomes nitrate.

You will want to do several small, but frequent water changes on the main tank. Say about 10% two to three times a week for at least two weeks. Then cut that down to 10% once a week if nitrates read less than 40ppm. Feed the fish about two minute worth of food three times a week split each into two or more feeds. Service the filter. Clean out hoses, impeller housing and other little nooks and crannies waste debris can get trapped. Use tank water to rinse out bio media bags to spare the bio on them. Once the nitrates are below 40ppm, you can up feeds to two minutes daily split into two or more feeds and skip a day or two out of the week. The fish can browse around picking at leftovers. It will help keep nitrates low.

The QT, do 25% water change twice a week to beat ammonia levels.

Well...at least that $40 on an $8 fish will be there when you need it again. Always good to have a QT. In fact, whenever you aquire a new fish, they should be put in a QT for about two weeks before being introduced into the main tank. If the fish is harboring an illness or parasites, it should show up within that two week time period and the fish can be medicated appropriately before introduction. This will help keep disease and parasites out of the main tank.
 
The Angel seems to be doing a little better. I can't really find a filter that is only for a 5gal tank. I really don't want to sink too much more money into this. I am very incouraged with the Angel though. It still seems to be laying on its side alot but it does get up to swim every once and awhile. I did find a small heater for the tank so that is in there now keeping it at about 76 degrees. I have only been feeding it a few tablets of food twice a day. It is eating some. How long should I expect the recovery to take? A few more days...weeks? Is there something else I should be doing? I plan on doing a water change tomorrow TCT, like you said. Thank you very much!
 
http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FILTRATION/Hydro-Sponge_Filters/body_hydro-sponge_filters.html

These are excellent sponge filters. Very simple and well suited for a QT. You don't need anything elaborate.

I know how frustrating having to pour in more money, but what you're investing now isn't all for just the angel. It will come in handy for other fish and actually save you money in the long run.

As of what next to do with the angel is hard to say without actually examining the fish myself. Shock can be difficult to battle and may take time for full recovery if there is a full recovery. I rarely, if ever recommend any type of chemical based medications for shock. Simple first aid is the best and less stressful...for both you and the fish. Continue using the stress coat during the water changes...you can add bio such as Cycle or Nitromax or Stability. Good product. Keep some trace of salt in there...measure correctly for the amount of water being replaced. A half dose of Melafix may help prevent any further illness. It's only been a couple of days. Give it some time. Sometimes we'll have fish in the back in their hospital tanks for weeks before they are deemed healthy and strong enough to be reintroduced into the system. Time and patience is key. It may take a week or two...may take a month. All depends on how the individual fish responds. Lowering nitrates can take a longer time than it takes to treat the fish, so relax and just do what needs to be done. Eventually it'll all balance out again.

I once had a customer with a 90 gallon FW aquarium fully stocked and with some very expensive fish. His water quality was unreal. All of it...ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate were off the charts. Surprising his fish didn't all keel over. I gave him the same basic intructions I gave you. He was so worried about losing all his fish and he had every reason to be worried with tank water like that. However, he managed through it all and only lost a couple of fish, but it took him well over 5 months to get it all back in balance. Your tank's water quality isn't anywhere near as bad, so of course it'll take much less time to achieve a balanced aquarium again.

Please keep me updated.
 
Ok I went out today and got the actual stuff called Stess Coat. Is this the same as the Water Conditioner? Also, should I only put in Stress Coat when I change water? Making the big assumption that the Angel makes it, how should I reintroduce it to the regular tank? Other than that, I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks!
 
Stress Coat is somewhat the same...it does dechlorinate the water, but also provides a layer of protective slime. The initial dose should be for the entire tank. After that, dose for the amount of water being changed out.

If the angel pulls through and the nitrates in the main tank have gone down and the rest of the bio intact, drip acclimate back to the tank.

Use an airline hose long enough to reach between a bucket and the tank. Tie a rock or something to the end that will go into the tank to weigh it down (make sure it doesn't cut off the flow of water) and tie a knot at the other end going to the bucket after starting a siphon of water from the tank. The tighter the knot, the slower the drip. Do this for about an hour then just put her right back in.
 
Ok...well I guess no news, is good news. It went behind the rock that I put in the tank. I thought it went there to die. I was even about to take it out and then the fish started swimming around again. What I have been doing is switching my 50gal filter back and forth. I can't find a LFS in my new neighborhood but there is a PetCo where I have been going and the smallest filter they have is a 35gal filter. The Angel really likes the filter it seems. When the filter is in one tank I put the air hose in the other. My question is now, how long is acceptable to have no filter in my big tank. I know there should always be a filter but I have the water moving around with the air bubbles and this is only temporary until the sick Angel either dies or gets better. Any other suggestions? Should I be doing something else?
 
Also, since I don't see anything on the fish its, I'm assuming, not a parasite on the fish or ich or anything like that. So, is it ok to switch filters back and forth?
 
I'd keep the filter on the big tank. Too much of a bother almost and the main tank is the more important of the two. Why jeopardize a system over an individual? Petco does carry filters for smaller tanks. I like Aqua Clears. They're inexpensive and decent filters. They should have them. If not, there are also Whisper filters. A common item at Petco. You could always opt to check out those hydro sponge filters I left a link to earlier. You can order those online somewhere. I persoanlly find aeration and mechanical filtration more important for a QT instead of bio. Many meds will interfere with the bio anyway...even those that say they don't, so it's senseles to have for a QT/hospital tank. Those that say they don't, do, but in an indirect way. Meds can interfer with available oxygen which can influence the bio. Frequent water changes are needed to control toxins because of the lack of bio.
 
OK so its been a couple of weeks since I have posted and there is still no news on the fish. I have purchased a 10gal filter for the tank. I'm still doing frequent water changes. I don't know what to do. There is no change. One thing I have noticed about the fish is that when I feed it, it only swims straight up and down (with its mouth pointing straight up) or it lays at the bottom and swims in circles while laying at the bottom. It doesn't seem to swim straight ahead and doesn't seem to be able to float normally. What can this be? Can I do something? I don't want to give up on it, I have far to much time and money invested in it now to quit. PLEASE, any suggestions or is this a losing battle?
 
If it's been this long without any positive results then perhaps this angel's dilema is permanent. Have you tried treating with an antibiotic?
 
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