Dying Platies and a Clown Pleco

[shad0wfish11]

Hello! I really hope someone here can help me.

About 2 months ago I set up a 20g tall aquarium (the very tall kind, not the sort of tall kind) that my uncle gave me (otherwise I would have chosen a long aquarium since more fish prefer that set up). I cycled it with fish (4 platies). Three of those are still alive, but of course the lone male was the one that died. I replaced him with 2 more males (assuming one would probably die) because the biggest female was getting pushy and I thought I should get a male back in there. Everyone was doing fine and well and after my ammonia and nitrites went down (less than 0.25ppm) I added a clown pleco to the mix. That was about 2 weeks ago. *Something you should know about this tank is that I am having an impossible time getting the pH down. It has been stuck at 8.2 no matter what I do. Not even API Proper pH 7.0 is helping, although that did the trick in my 5g.*

A few days ago I noticed that my platies were acting a little odd. The bully female was hanging out near the top of the tank and the other 4 were all hanging out at the bottom. No one was swimming around much. I tested and my nitrites were up to .5ppm, so I thought it might just be a spike and they weren't handling it well. But, just to be safe, I decided to treat my tank for bacterial infection, just in case. Well, that was not the right thing to do. About 36 hours ago ALL of the platies began to act just plain bizarre and definitely sick. They all swim just fine for a few moments, then spaz out and seize up and get caught drifting around. Slowly the paralysis lets up and they get back to swimming...until it happens again. The smallest three (the two males and one of the females) are definitely doing the worst and I haven't actually seen the big bully female seize up at all so she seems in the best shape. The pleco, to my observation, seems unaffected. I also noticed yesterday morning that the bully female had long stringy white poo, so I have already started treating for parasitic infection but I'm thinking its probably too late.

Basically, I am expecting all the platies to die at this point and am considering just euthenizing them. However, the clown pleco is doing ok thus far. I mostly want to know what I should do with him and my tank once the platies die. I obviously can't just put new fish in this tank; it is diseased and deadly. And I can't just clean it out and plop the pleco back in because a)it won't be cycled anymore and b)he may still be carrying the disease. A friend of mine who has considerably more experience than me in fish keeping suggested purging the entire tank and starting over, but I'd really like to keep this pleco if I can.

Also just some other information: As I said, the pH is perpetually stuck at 8.2 no matter what I try. Because of this, I haven't been adding aquarium salt when I do my water changes, which right now have been happening every other day because of the nitrite spike. The ammonia and nitrites are back down under .5ppm, but still above zero. Also, I am not an inexperienced fish keeper, but this is my first time dealing with a situation like this. I've been blessed to have mostly healthy tanks (except for my last betta who was just a sickly little thing the entire time I had him) so I am just utterly lost here.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

The first thing that jumps out at me is the use of pH reducing chemicals. They do more harm than good. They can cause wild pH fluctuations. These can mess up the cycle and cause stress on fish. If the pH is stable at 8.2 don't mess with it. The fish will be perfectly fine. All of my tanks sit at 8 because that's what my tap water is.

Second thing is all the treatments you have been adding. Medication on top of medication in an unstable tank can cause a lot of stress on the fish.

I don't think there is any need to tear the tank down at this stage. If you can get it stable and keep it disease free for 4-6 weeks then it should be fine to add more fish.

Do you have a quarantine tank? If so its probably best to move all the infected fish to continue treatment. It will help stop the spread and preserve the cycle in the main tank. Certain antibiotics (gram positive) will kill off the bio filter.

 

[Scottyhorse]

I would follow Mumma's advice, but I would like to suggest doing a water change. When ammonia and nitrites are .5 PPM, that's not safe for the fish.

 

[shad0wfish11]

I would follow Mumma's advice, but I would like to suggest doing a water change. When ammonia and nitrites are .5 PPM, that's not safe for the fish.

I have been doing 25% water changes every other day since I noticed the spike. I thought I mentioned that I have been doing changes every other day in my first post. I am aware that those levels are dangerously high.

 

[Scottyhorse]

You should be doing a 75% every day till it gets back to 0. Maybe more.

 

[shad0wfish11]

The first thing that jumps out at me is the use of pH reducing chemicals. They do more harm than good. They can cause wild pH fluctuations. These can mess up the cycle and cause stress on fish. If the pH is stable at 8.2 don't mess with it. The fish will be perfectly fine. All of my tanks sit at 8 because that's what my tap water is.

Second thing is all the treatments you have been adding. Medication on top of medication in an unstable tank can cause a lot of stress on the fish.

I don't think there is any need to tear the tank down at this stage. If you can get it stable and keep it disease free for 4-6 weeks then it should be fine to add more fish.

Do you have a quarantine tank? If so its probably best to move all the infected fish to continue treatment. It will help stop the spread and preserve the cycle in the main tank. Certain antibiotics (gram positive) will kill off the bio filter.

I do not think the platies will live. I was surprised no one was dead this morning and am expecting at least one, if not all, of them to be dead when I get home from work tonight.

I didn't mean to overmedicate. I thought I was heading off a bacterial infection and then discovered it was actually an internal parasite issue.

I do have a quarentine tank; I was going to remove the pleco and put him in there and tear down the 20g tank once the platies died. If I remove the platies, do I leave the pleco in the big tank? And if so, do I continue to treat him and that tank just in case?

 

[shad0wfish11]

You should be doing a 75% every day till it gets back to 0. Maybe more.

That is the highest water change amount I have ever heard suggested, even for a new cycling tank. When I first started the tank I was doing 50% every day and it seemed to work fine. Also, my levels have dropped back down a bit as I also said, but I will increase the water changes.

 

[Scottyhorse]

If the levels are .25 or lower, you can get away with less water changes.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I do not think the platies will live. I was surprised no one was dead this morning and am expecting at least one, if not all, of them to be dead when I get home from work tonight.

I didn't mean to overmedicate. I thought I was heading off a bacterial infection and then discovered it was actually an internal parasite issue.

I do have a quarentine tank; I was going to remove the pleco and put him in there and tear down the 20g tank once the platies died. If I remove the platies, do I leave the pleco in the big tank? And if so, do I continue to treat him and that tank just in case?

If the pleco isn't showing any signs of disease I would hold off on medications and moving him for now. Treating for internal parasites as a precaution in the future before adding more fish can be done without any harm. Remember new fish can introduce disease also.

Some large water changes on the main tank are a good idea. 25% every two days wouldn't be doing much. You need to get the medications and pH chemical out of the tank. The platys may make a recovery once the waters in better condition. Medication and quarantine might not be needed.

What do you feed them? Some foods can cause bloating and clear poop. If clear poop only happens once its usually not parasites.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Also what temp is the tank at?

 

[shad0wfish11]

If the pleco isn't showing any signs of disease I would hold off on medications and moving him for now. Treating for internal parasites as a precaution in the future before adding more fish can be done without any harm. Remember new fish can introduce disease also.

Some large water changes on the main tank are a good idea. 25% every two days wouldn't be doing much. You need to get the medications and pH chemical out of the tank. The platys may make a recovery once the waters in better condition. Medication and quarantine might not be needed.

What do you feed them? Some foods can cause bloating and clear poop. If clear poop only happens once its usually not parasites.

I feed them Tetramin tropical flakes and Top Fin algae thins (for the pleco, but the platies eat them as well). I noticed another platy with white poo as well before I left for work today. Also, my little male (smallest guy in the tank) definifely had a bloated belly this morning.

 

[shad0wfish11]

Also what temp is the tank at?

80ºF with almost no fluctuation.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I feed them Tetramin tropical flakes and Top Fin algae thins (for the pleco, but the platies eat them as well). I noticed another platy with white poo as well before I left for work today. Also, my little male (smallest guy in the tank) definifely had a bloated belly this morning.

Ok thanks. You haven't fed anything like bloodworms or vege? You are right it does sound like internal parasites. What are you using to treat? You can feed them blanched, deshelled, crushed peas to help bowel movements. Epsom salt also works as a laxative to help expel parasites. I've change my mind about the pleco. It needs treatment also.

With a temp of 80 and pH of 8.2, ammonia at .50ppm isn't completely toxic but you do need to be aware if it.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

Are there any red worms protruding from the fish's anus?

 

[shad0wfish11]

Ok thanks. You haven't fed anything like bloodworms or vege? You are right it does sound like internal parasites. What are you using to treat? You can feed them blanched, deshelled, crushed peas to help bowel movements. Epsom salt also works as a laxative to help expel parasites. I've change my mind about the pleco. It needs treatment also.

With a temp of 80 and pH of 8.2, ammonia at .50ppm isn't completely toxic but you do need to be aware if it.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

Are there any red worms protruding from the fish's anus?

I haven't fed anything else yet; I was planning on doing some veggies soon since I also have otos in another tank and I know they would like some as well. I noticed one of the larger females had a little red around the back end but she was the only one.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

What's medication are you using? Can I get you to look up camalanus worms? If thats what you're dealing with, they require different meds than most others.

 

[shad0wfish11]

What's medication are you using? Can I get you to look up camalanus worms? If thats what you're dealing with, they require different meds than most others.

I used Melafix for the bactetial infection and now I am using API General Cure. And I will look them up as soon as I send this.

 

[shad0wfish11]

I can't find much about the camalanus worms except that they stick out of the anus like little red spikes. I have not observed anything like that in my fish, but I can take a closer look (again, when I get home. Wednesdays are a very late work night for me unfortunately).

 

[shad0wfish11]

Got home. Both males and the smallest female are dead. The two larger females are still swimming. The largest has white stringy poo, but I don't think I see any red spikes coming out. I will inspect the dead fish once I get them out of the tank (literally just walked in the door).

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Sorry to hear that. A medicated food would be your best bet IMO. Gets to where they are so its more effective. Let me know what you find.

Oh and about the melafix. It's only a mild antiseptic. For bacterial infections antibiotics and salt work far better. Melafix is ok for fin damage and minor wounds but so is just clean water.

 

[shad0wfish11]

Sorry to hear that. A medicated food would be your best bet IMO. Gets to where they are so its more effective. Let me know what you find.

Oh and about the melafix. It's only a mild antiseptic. For bacterial infections antibiotics and salt work far better. Melafix is ok for fin damage and minor wounds but so is just clean water.

Ok. Thank you so much for all of your help!