Fish dying and doing flashes

[yh8lee]

Hi,

Somebody please help me on treating the my fish. My molly just died. And about half of my fish are doing occasional flashes. I cannot see any white spots on any of my fish, and I have already raised my tank temperature to 88 or 89 degree F for about 10 days already. During this 10 days, I've done a couple of vacuum, and about 4 water changes (20% to 50%). Ammonia is currently close to zero.

I cannot tell whether they have ich or not. When my molly died, one side near her gill had an area of some white stuffs. It looked like fungus, but it's not like a cotton ball at all. It's more like a film.

I don't see any white spots on any of my fish. Yet they (platies and guppies) do flashes, rubbing against decoration or tube.

I have two tetras and 1 emerald cory catfish, and therefore, I have been hesitating to use any meds. But 10 days of high temperature have not helped. In fact, at least 3 more adult fish started to do flashes, and several baby fish started to do that as well. I started my temperature at about 85 on the first day, and raised up to 89 a few days later.

I don't want any more death. Could anyone help me out? I tried salt once, but because I don't know exactly how much I should add, I stopped.

Many Thanks,

Sean

 

[Fishfur]

Any chance of pics ? It's very hard to guess without one. Flashing is often associated with parasites but may also be illness related, even ammonia poisoning.

You say ammonia is low.. how low ? What are the water tests telling you.. tell us please.

 

[yh8lee]

Water test showed about 0.5ppm for my tank water. I tested totally clean tap water with water conditioner, and it showed 0.25ppm to 0.5ppm, and I also tested totally clean tap water without water conditioner, and it showed 0.25ppm. I couldn't get a 0ppm reading at all using my test kit. Based on the calibration tests, I think the tank water has fairly low ammonia currently. By the way, when I tested the tap water, I let the tube immersed in water overnight, just to get rid of any traces of ammonia from my other tank water tests.

I will post a picture later tonight when I get home.

Thanks.

 

[Fishfur]

Most ammonia tests can't tell you if it is free ammonia or ammonium, which is harmless, chemically bound up. Seachem's test does tell the two apart, others tell you the total, which leads to not being able to get a true zero reading, even though there may not be any free ammonia to worry about.

But I'd guess it is not the issue. I wonder if it is velvet, which is a bit like ick, and treated similarly. Never had it, so I don't know for sure, I'd have to look it up to see. You can do that too of course.

 

[yh8lee]

Here is the picture of the dead molly, with the circled affected area. I don't know how to embed a picture in this forum.

http://hmp.me/b6d

I didn't realize that she had those white stuff. It was not very noticeable. It's like a thin whitish film.

And it only took 1.5 days from actively swimming and seeking food to being dead. She was flashing for about 16 days. She went dead shortly after I put her for Quick Care ich treatment, but by that time, she wasn't swimming much, and often floating more.

I looked up velvet. I didn't think that that was it because it's called gold dust, and I don't see any gold dust thing on my fish. But I'm open to anything now. Velvet based on internet info is extremely nasty. However, due to the colors of my gold molly, it's kind of very difficult to tell any white spots or any gold spots. Regardless, there are no spots on my other flashing fishes.

I'm taking my dead molly to petsmart for a diagnosis right now.

 

[Fishfur]

Gold dust is just a term, it can look a bit like that, from what I've read. I can't see enough detail in the picture to say anything. Hope someone at PetSmart knows enough to be able to help you.

But if she was flashing for that long before she got very sick looking, chances are she had something, whether you were able to recognize it or not. Fish don't flash for that long unless something is really bugging them.

 

[yh8lee]

I actually thought that I cured Molly's flashes. I barely see her doing flashes for 2 or 3 days before she died. But my other fishes started to flash.

Unfortunately, I cannot rely on my observation because I have very little time throughout the daytime to observe them. If I don't see them flash, it doesn't mean that they don't flash.

The PetSmart person couldn't help me much. She said she thinks it may be fungus. There is little sign of white stuffs left on the molly when I get the dead fish out, and took that picture.

Anyway, I did another 50% water change & vacuum just this morning, and added 2 grams of salt per gallon of water. I believe that's about 0.3 to 0.4 teaspoon of salt per gallon. Fish looks fine besides flashing. Still keep aquarium at 88 degree.

I'd like to put in some medication, but I just don't know what is the right thing to put in, since I don't see any gold dusts or white spots on my platies and guppies.

The most weird thing is that the supposedly more fragile fishes: cory catfish and glow-light tetras are showing zero signs of flashing. Only platies/mollies and a couple of guppies.

 

[Fishfur]

Meds, in my opinions, should always be the last resort. Most are quite harsh, and you can't combine them with high temperature, since the meds also lower oxygen levels in water and if fish are already having trouble breathing, it makes that worse. So while you can combine salt and high temps, you cannot combine meds and high temps.

The amount of salt you are using won't help. Here is one of the very best articles on treating ich I've ever seen. It's long, read it all. If there is any chance your fish have ich, then you need to treat it with salt and heat, since heat alone does not appear to be working for you. Cories are catfish and thus more sensitive to salt than other fishes, but they can tolerate the lower levels for a week or two. Studies have shown this, and even if they have no symptoms, if there is ich, they will get it at some point. And they may not show the same symptoms as the mollies have. Not all fish will flash.

Article is here. Understanding and Treating Ich or White Spot

If it's not ich, I am at a loss for what you might try. Many of the meds you can buy over the counter, like Melafix, really don't do much, if anything. More a waste of money, I've always thought.

Edit. The only other thing where flashing is seen like you've described that I can find is Velvet. It can be very hard to see until late in the infection. Salt alone won't do the trick.. it needs copper based treatment, and the lights turned out for a week, since the parasite gets some of it's energy from photosynthesis. I sure hope it's not velvet. You've done some reading I know, here's one article that seems to make sense of it.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/velvet.htm

I'll see if I can find anything else that seems to fit the symptoms.

Edit.

The only other things I can find that seem to fit this are gill flukes, which you might not be able to see, but the fish would have inflamed gills, or possibly a reaction to water changes. How often do you change water ? One writer postulated that if the water has something in it, perhaps copper or heavy metals, the fish will flash after water changes because it's irritating them, then stop as they become used to it, only to start again after the next water change. Not sure if that fits with what's happening to you, but you can look up gill flukes and see if anything fits, assuming the ick or velvet does not fit.

There are quite a few mentions of flashing without any overt signs of ich or anything else, sometimes fish die, but mostly not. I wish I could be of more concrete help to you.

 

[yh8lee]

I think it's gill fluke. What's the best way to treat it?

After two weeks of adding salt slowly, I'm finally at 6.7 grams per gallon. I was afraid to add too much. My tank is still at 88 degree. I don't see more fish doing flashing. I think one of my platy actually recovered somewhat, I still have at least 1 guppy and 2 baby mollies flashing.

I just realized today that I have been confused about 2 teaspoons per gallon for salt treatment. I confused about teaspoon versus tablespoon. I thought it's 2 tablespoons and that was just a too crazy amount it seemed to me. Good thing that I didn't do 2 tablespoons. It's 4 ounce per 10 gallons, which is about 11.34 grams per gallon, or almost 2 teaspoons per gallon.

I still don't see any gold or white spots on any of my fish.

I'm going to go all the way to 12 grams per gallon. I hope my emerald cory catfish and glow light tetras can take this level. Am I raising the salt level too slow for the gill flukes? And I guess I need to maintain for 3 weeks at this salt level? What's the recommended water change frequency & percentage?

If this doesn't work, shall I get Prazipro or Praziquantel then?

Many thanks, Fishfur for all of your replies.

 

[Fishman88888]

Hi,

Somebody please help me on treating the my fish. My molly just died. And about half of my fish are doing occasional flashes. I cannot see any white spots on any of my fish, and I have already raised my tank temperature to 88 or 89 degree F for about 10 days already. During this 10 days, I've done a couple of vacuum, and about 4 water changes (20% to 50%). Ammonia is currently close to zero.

I cannot tell whether they have ich or not. When my molly died, one side near her gill had an area of some white stuffs. It looked like fungus, but it's not like a cotton ball at all. It's more like a film.

I don't see any white spots on any of my fish. Yet they (platies and guppies) do flashes, rubbing against decoration or tube.

I have two tetras and 1 emerald cory catfish, and therefore, I have been hesitating to use any meds. But 10 days of high temperature have not helped. In fact, at least 3 more adult fish started to do flashes, and several baby fish started to do that as well. I started my temperature at about 85 on the first day, and raised up to 89 a few days later.

I don't want any more death. Could anyone help me out? I tried salt once, but because I don't know exactly how much I should add, I stopped.

Many Thanks,

Sean

How many fish do you have in your tank ? What size tank is it?

 

[yh8lee]

I have a 36 gallon tank, with

2 glow light tetra
1 emerald cory catfish
3 platy
1 balloon molly
6 guppies
11 baby mollies

Thanks.

 

[Fishman88888]

That cottony fungus you were talking about... Did you find a dead fish in the tank covered in cottony fungus like that at any point before that last one you showed us

Is it on any ornaments, plants or driftwood? Or just floating around your tank by any chance? Or is it just on the fish?

 

[Fishman88888]

Out of anyone on here, I'm probly the farthest from an expert

But I'd associate that white film to columnaris... It would explain the extremely quick deaths, otherwise your cories prob woulda gotten hit first IMO

I had to deal with something similar. .. Probly not the best solution, but what I did, was put my fish in a bucket, completely emptied their tank of water, gravel and decorations.. I wiped it down till it looked brand new inside, And then I replaced the water with water from another tank, and I also moved that filter over... (Luckily I had my 125 gal to steal water from that had similar water conditions). But a filter swap would be the same thing, just add a bit of bb to replace what you lost from the 100% water change. No fish died after I did that, they all recovered.

Why try fixing ****** water
That's just my opinion.

 

[yh8lee]

No, that's the only fish that had that white thin film. When I realized that the fish was wobbling a little, it already had that white thin film. But there was probably only maximum of two days from fully actively searching for food to wobbling.

I isolated the fish and put Quick Cure. I don't think I overdosed, but when I returned from home, it's already dead.

Anyway, I have been thinking about the same thing that you described, except that I don't have any other tank to get the biological filter and the needed water.

I just started a new 10-gallon tank for QT or med-tank, or most likely to relocate the male baby mollies away from the females 3 months from now. Don't want any more baby fish. Just no space.

If I still have problems, maybe that's what I should do.