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Old 02-03-2011, 09:03 PM   #1
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Flashing, Rubbing nothing helping!

Hello,

My indoor 120ltr cold tank has 5 little shubunkins who all flick and rub the sides and gravel.

They also act normal then all hang together and rub the same corner.

Then they are back to normal. Give it a few more hours or day I catch one or two rubbing corners or the gravel while all others are swimming around like normal.

Lately they just hang in one corner at the bottom under the plant for long periods and sometimes fast swimming across the tank but they never jump out.

They feed normally all have there fins open and no rapid gill movements.


PH is 8.0
everything else is at 0

I do a 10% to 15% water change every 2 weeks

Tank been set up over 8 months

I have tried these treatments:-

White spot, Flukes, velvet, bacterial.

I have used aquarium salt over a long period.

The white spots and fluke treatment have been used longer because I know how hard flukes can be and these where used with the salt.

I'm just lost on what to do. I have done nothing for about 1 month now and they seem to still rub.

Help!!
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:29 AM   #2
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What kind of a test are you using? Is the tank planted? You should have some nitrAtes.
You should be changing more water than you are, especially with goldfish, since they are messy. Alot of us on here change 25-50% of the water a week, I do 50%.
How long have you had the fish? Any new additions in the last few weeks?
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:58 AM   #3
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What kind of a test are you using? Is the tank planted? You should have some nitrAtes.
You should be changing more water than you are, especially with goldfish, since they are messy. Alot of us on here change 25-50% of the water a week, I do 50%.
How long have you had the fish? Any new additions in the last few weeks?
I have plastic and live plants, I use a freshwater master kit from pets at home.

I used to change 25% a week but this is to much according to the pet store and they only change 15 to 25% every two weeks.

Had the fish 2 to 3 months - all bought at the same time.

Most Nitrate I've had was 1-2. But I have 0 about 3 out or 4 weeks
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:27 AM   #4
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Fresh water is always better, as most fish don't live in stagnant water, they live in water that flows, and there is fresh coming in all the time.
Pet stores have alot of sick fish too.
Since you have had the fish that long, I doubt they have ich.
Just a little test to try: move the decorations around, and see if they start rubbing on them again. Some fish (not sure about goldies) will rub against stuff to mark their territory.
Also, when the fish grow, they will need a bigger tank. The tank you have is about 36 US gallons, and one goldfish needs 15 gallons, and all after that need 10 gallons.
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:34 AM   #5
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Fresh water is always better, as most fish don't live in stagnant water, they live in water that flows, and there is fresh coming in all the time.
Pet stores have alot of sick fish too.
Since you have had the fish that long, I doubt they have ich.
Just a little test to try: move the decorations around, and see if they start rubbing on them again. Some fish (not sure about goldies) will rub against stuff to mark their territory.
Also, when the fish grow, they will need a bigger tank. The tank you have is about 36 US gallons, and one goldfish needs 15 gallons, and all after that need 10 gallons.
None look like they have salt on them.

I had to turn the flow down as it made my fish swim side ways in some parts lol

Guess I'll watch them over next few weeks and report on them
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:43 AM   #6
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I'm having the same problem in my tank at the moment. I've got tree guppies flashing, and no White spots. Blue tetras swimming sideways because of the flow. Will be interested to see what's causing the flashing in your case
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:45 PM   #7
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No visible white spots doesn't mean you're clear of ICH. This parasite will sometimes attack the gills and stays hidden from the human eye.

First thing first...disregard everything the pet store told you. No wonder you're not getting any where.

Start doing 50% water changes once a week and vacuum the gravel. You'll definitely see changes. It's kind of hard to believe your ammonia is at 0 when you only do 10% water changes every two weeks. How old is your test kit? Is it the API master test kit? Is it the one with 2 ammonia bottles or 1? I suggest re-testing your water. Possibly have a LFS test it for you.

Fish flash when something is irritating them....this can be ammonia or parasites like ich/velvet. What meds did you use to treat for ich/velvet? How long did you use it? And did you remove carbon from the filter while treating for ich/velvet?
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:55 PM   #8
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No visible white spots doesn't mean you're clear of ICH. This parasite will sometimes attack the gills and stays hidden from the human eye.

First thing first...disregard everything the pet store told you. No wonder you're not getting any where.

Start doing 50% water changes once a week and vacuum the gravel. You'll definitely see changes. It's kind of hard to believe your ammonia is at 0 when you only do 10% water changes every two weeks. How old is your test kit? Is it the API master test kit? Is it the one with 2 ammonia bottles or 1? I suggest re-testing your water. Possibly have a LFS test it for you.

Fish flash when something is irritating them....this can be ammonia or parasites like ich/velvet. What meds did you use to treat for ich/velvet? How long did you use it? And did you remove carbon from the filter while treating for ich/velvet?
Removed Carbon for all treatments.

I use Interpet for velvet and ich

I also have used formalin and malachite - treated all for more than what the bottle said to catch the new borns. All with 25% water change each week and 50% at the end of treatment.

tried Melafix

I have had ammonia at 2 before but was fine after a water change - I keep a weekly log.

Yes its the two bottle ammonia.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:24 PM   #9
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The fish have been in there for months, and they are just now getting ich? Not likely.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:28 PM   #10
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Ich can be present in a tank for a long time and will attack fish when they are stressed, have damaged tissue or are ill with something else. Some argue that ICH is always present in the tank.

How cold is the water in your tank?
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:31 AM   #11
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Ich is not always present, since it needs a host to live. It is a parasite, and therefore feeds off of something else to survive.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:18 PM   #12
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Well I know for a fact I've had ich outbreaks years after any new addition to the tank...how would one explain that?
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:24 PM   #13
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The your poor fish had ich for years and suffered without you knowing. Ich HAS to have a host, they have to eat something.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:24 PM   #14
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I've had the fish for a long time and they never showed any symptoms of ICH...they were healthy looking and acting...and then all of a sudden my two botia loaches were covered with it and started with the flashing against everything.

Something to think about...if like you say my fish were suffering from ich for all these years but yet they have not showed any symptoms of ICH...then is it not possible that the ich was kept to a minimal without spreading too much and attacking the hosts...but enough of it survived to keep reproducing? I'm just going by what I've experienced and seen with my own eyes.
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