Garra Rufa fish losing scales?!

[SteffeyJ]

Please help!!
My Garra Rufa is losing its scales. Just very small random patches that look like single scales missing all over his body!!
I havent been able to find any info on this either...
He is still acting the same and otherwise seems healthy!
And the water has been testing the same as it always has!
I've recently has a ramshorn snail explosion, and there is more than normal but I've been removing alot of them as I am able to catch them.. but that is the only thing I can think of that has changed!!
He has still been eating fine and swimming normal...

Is it normal for fish to lose their scales like that??
It does not look normal.

I will try to get a picture but he is not very photogenic lol.

Any help would be appreciated!! Thank you!!

 

[SteffeyJ]

Best pic I could get..... please help!!

This is the best picture I could get....
And I know everyone is going to immediately say ich or jck... but I really dont think that is the case..
When I was MUCH younger, (when Walmart still sold fish) I lost my entire tank to ich! Treatment wasnt as available then as it is now either!
If need be, I will treat for it anyways, if anyone knows what I could use that is invert safe... I have quite a few new shrimp that I dont want to lose!! And snails!!

It really looks like the scales have just fallen off!
Where the 'white-ish' spots are, it is inverted.
Like the scale fell off!!
I have NO IDEA what to do or what to treat for!!

Please help!!

 

[Autumnsky]

Not thinking that is normal. How old is this fish?

What is the tank temperature?

Tankmates?

If you are having a population increase of RH snails, you are likely feeding too much.

What are your water parameters?

Ammonia
NitrIte
Nitrate

pH

GH/KH

TDS

 

[SteffeyJ]

Since I just introduced those new shrimp, I have been feeding more because I've added shrimp pellets and BacterAe to my normal fish feeding routine.. might just try and see how the shrimp do with just "leftovers" for awhile and maybe BacterAe Once a week? There is only 12ish shrimp in there...
Also 4 panda cory cats. 4 half banded loaches and I got a bristlenose pleco about a month ago.. the shrimp I just added about.. what a week ago?? Could it be the shrimp? Or the pleco? Garra seemed ok after the pleco was there.. but idk... could it be him? The shrimp are an even newer addition though...

Also, ammonia tested a tiny bit this morning, so I did a small water change immediately, so now is back all good...
So Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 and Nitrate I put at about close to 35-40.. I have alot of plants. So honestly I think my ferts add some to nitrate.. but the plants seem to LOVE it. And are doing really well. So I am just keeping it steadily there... The slightest change, and I do about a 40% water change.
But has been pretty stable lately.
Just still trying to figure out feeding with the new shrimp.
And you're right. I'm sure I have over fed.
Because I didnt realize I would receive such young shrimp! So I felt like I HAD to use the BacterAE And shrimpbaby food... and I've added a (small) shrimp wafer Every night on top of what I normally feed my fish...
I know this caused the spike in the snails. For sure.
So am trying to work that out and find a happy medium..
So am going with WAYYY less right now, just to kind of see who exactly needs what! Tricky thing to figure out! And I feel I had finally had feeding down perfect and now these shrimp and I go overboard.. lol. So I'm going to cut back quite a bit for sure. And continue to remove the ramshorns..
I have a TDS meter along with gh& ph test kits on the way as we speak! So far I have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, calcium and high range Ph. Which I guess I could try... also had a phosphate one I got on accident and donated it to my LFS lol. Since I dont have saltwater, dont think I'd need it...
Oh and tank temp is usually steadily around 76-78 degrees F.

I really cannot figure out what is happening with him!!
can snails suck his scales off???

And I really dont think it is ich.
But the other fish are scaleless...
So could that be it maybe?
And maybe that's why it's the only one with signs because it's the only fish with scales??
I am driving myself crazy!
I honestly don't think its ich..
I see the impression of a scale missing. Is exactly what it looks like. It is inverted (or goes down) where the white is... so REALLY Think its losing scales.
Will try to get a better picture...

Thanks for the response!!
Appreciate the help, as always!

 

[SteffeyJ]

I've had the fish for.....
3 months, atleast. If not more..
But not sure how old it really is either lol.

 

[Autumnsky]

It certainly is difficult to dial down how much to feed. I have the same concerns. It's not like the fish can go upstream and get a better selection. So I worry for them, lol.

Long ago someone told me all the fish need is an amount of food which is the size of their eye.

Not as much as I usually give them, I usually give them more. (I will skip a feeding though and then feed the next morning if I think I might have over done it.)

So yes it seems maybe overfeeding could be something to change.

Usually losing scales is from a fish attacking it, or sucking on it, a parasite or an infection, it can be from an injury but this seems like too many scales to just lose bumping into something. Unless it seems to run into things?

If you have a mild case of Ich, it can multiply and become worse.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/ich-ick-white-spot-or-whatever-else-you-call-it/

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/freshwater-ich-yuck/

This is possible but maybe another parasite.

Try reading this and see if anything rings a bell.
https://www.aquariumadvice.com/fish-disease-index-for-diagnosis-and-treatment/





Is there any scales bul

 

[Autumnsky]

Gill Flukes, any red gills, body Flukes little dots which can move.

 

[Autumnsky]

Trichodina


https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitst...d chemical,is the FDA-approved recommendation.

 

[SteffeyJ]

Another thing maybe I should mention.....
Since the day I got this fish, it will jump up onto my HOB outflow and hang on as long as he can splashing around in the water and go back into tank.
Or, I also have a ring of airline tube around the HOB outflow and sometimes it will lay on the tubing and let the water splash onto it!! Lol!
So weird. But noisy! And I wouldnt of believed it if i hadn't saw it! Multiple times!
Its definitely an odd fish!!
But I havent seen anything sucking on him or anything like that! And there is NOTHING sharp! I'm sure of that!! Checked that 1000 times before getting the loaches! Lol

And you mention gill flukes...
I have a thing of 'API general cure's
Maybe I'll try that?
Says invert safe. So I dont think it could hurt to try it...

The fact that it is losing scales on head and body and tail. And not just in one spot, honestly makes it harder to figure out... in my opinion!! Have been searching all day and I am still at a loss... no idea what it is causing this scale loss....

 

[Autumnsky]

Maybe it's jumping onto other things and hitting them and getting little scrapes.

They are fish which live/often live, in fast moving waters and like rushing water.

Medications are hard on fish.

Can cause them stress. So deciding what it most likely is, and how to treat might be helpful before using anything else.

Perfect water quality is top priority.

But if you have a parasite then it would need certain treatment.

It doesn't have any of the same Gara Rufa fish friends right? Maybe it is more stressed about the lack of friends and trying to look for some.

So many possibilities. :/

 

[Autumnsky]

Pm'd you some other info.

 

[SteffeyJ]

Autumnsky,
You are wonderful!!
Thank you sooooo very much for always trying to help me!! I'll definitely look into the info and will keep you updated!!
He/she is still acting normally!
Very active and eating every time I feed.
(Which I've cut back on quite a bit!)
I do not see any red gills or anything like that and it doesnt seem to really bother it at all, honestly!
I wish it could tell me what is wrong!!
But will be looking into the many possibilities and hopefully choosing the correct path...��fingers crossed*
Thanks again!

 

[Autumnsky]

It is so hard to figure these things out.

 

[SteffeyJ]

Have found THIS happening!!
One of my half banded loaches is hanging on to my garra!
It reminds me of those fish that suck onto sharks!! Lol!!
But this may have been the problem all along!!
Never ever would have guessed this if I hadn't seen it myself!!
Sorry for bad pic but they were moving quite fast!

 

[Autumnsky]

Bingo! That would be the thought of why they were missing, but didn't know these guys would do that!

On a positive note, read that they can possibly grow back.

Poor little fella.

 

[SteffeyJ]

So. Update!!
My garra still has 'scars'
Idk what to even call them.
But they're like white scales! But it seems to be growing back and recovering!! Fingers crossed!!*
And any time I catch the half banded loach next to him, I shoo him away with the end of the tweezer things! And it seems to be the SAME half banded loach every time!! I have 4 and it really looks like the same one does this!
And it REALLY does remind me of those sucker fish that cling to sharks!! Its like the same thing!
But I really do think that was the cause of it all!!
My garra seems to be healing. And have been feeding them at separate times and it seems to be helping!

Knock on wood!**
Thank you so much for all of the help in solving this though!! I greatly appreciate everything!!