Glofish hiding

[librarygirl]

Hi everyone,

today I noticed 1 of my Glofish hiding on the bottom corner of the tank (12 gal bow front with heater, filter, bio wheel, air stone)

He wasn't doing this yesterday

There are 4 Glofish total in the tank, he is the smallest. I have noticed the largest (prob a female, very large belly) chasing the others more. The others are still swimming around just the smallest one hiding

He (?) isn't gasping, color is good, fins seem fine although he might be clamping them a bit and his tail fin sometimes droops a bit, no discolorations that I can notice (he is small and red so it's harder to see but I haven't noticed anything that appears abnormal)

the tank has been set up for one month, changing water 1-2x per day and testing 2-3x per day with API kit. tank is not yet cycled. Most recent levels were:

Tonight at 8 pm: ph 7.6, ammonia 0.25, nitrates/nitrites both 0
[edited to add]: This morning 2:30 AM: just tested ammonia (was worried it was too high) which was still 0.25; did a 4 gal pwc
This morning (Friday) 9:00 AM: ammonia still 0.25; ph off the chart dark blue (having issues with ph lately, am baffled); high range ph 7.4, no nitrates/nitrites[/edit]

I then did a 1 gal water change to see if his behavior changed but didn't. He has been coming up to eat but seems leery and tries to stay away from other fish

Don't want this cutie to die from stress, is there anything I can do ? Not sure why this is happening now as they've been in the tank together for a while now. Thank you

[edit: just saw the sticky on the Q's to answer when posting here, sorry, here are my answers, some info may be repeated from above:]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability -
small Glofish, hiding/hovering in back corner of tank near filter and heater; he does come up to eat

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
Thurs at 8 pm: ph 7.6, ammonia 0.25, nitrates/nitrites both 0
This morning 2:30 AM: just tested ammonia (was worried it was too high) which was still 0.25; did a 4 gal pwc
This morning 9:00 AM: ammonia still 0.25; ph off the chart dark blue (having issues with ph lately, am baffled); high range ph 7.4, no nitrates/nitrites

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
12 gal Marineland Bowfront
For the first two weeks I had a 5 gal hex; tank wasn't cycled yet; worried that it was too small for the fish so I upgraded to the 12 gal; all water parameters were the same. Larger tank has been up for about 2 weeks now

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
The system that came with the aquarium

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
4 Glofish; I think there are 2 males, 2 femals
One is very large (female I think), the other two are smaller but not the smallest (one male one female I'm guessing) and the one with the hiding issue is the smallest. I haven't tried to measure them but can do so if it would help

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
I usually change about 2 gals - 6 gals at a time depending on ammonia;
ammonia hasn't risen from 0.25 which is the highest reading I've gotten so far
I change water 1-2x daily

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
Had two of the fish for a month (got them when the 5 gal was set up); originally had 3. One died (after my first pwc which went horribly and this fish was already stressed and being bullied); I returned to PetSmart who advised to get 2 more to even out the numbers and minimize bullying. So two have been in the tank since the beginning about a month, the other two (including the one hiding) are newest and have been in there for 2+ weeks.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
When I upgraded to the larger tank I moved over the deco and substrate but it obviously wasn't enough to fill a 12 gal, so I added more new substrate and some new decor and fake plants. Nothing new since then.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
No changes. I mostly give them Omega flakes 1x per day and 1-2x per week I treat them with dried bloodworms

 

[WoopAhhh]

First of all, 2 gallons is /way/ too small for 4 goldfish! It's too small for just one goldfish. The rule is that you should have a 20-gallon tank for one goldfish, and an extra 10 gallons per additional goldfish. Goldfish are very, very messy and produce a lot of wastes which produces a lot of ammonia--I'm sure that's the reason your goldfish is appearing to be lethargic. Your tank hasn't been cycled yet, has it?

 

[Dylan5359]

First of all, 2 gallons is /way/ too small for 4 goldfish! It's too small for just one goldfish. The rule is that you should have a 20-gallon tank for one goldfish, and an extra 10 gallons per additional goldfish. Goldfish are very, very messy and produce a lot of wastes which produces a lot of ammonia--I'm sure that's the reason your goldfish is appearing to be lethargic. Your tank hasn't been cycled yet, has it?

He/she said they have GLOFISH. Not goldfish. In a 12 gallon tank. Which is perfectly fine for four of them.

 

[Dylan5359]

Ammonia seems high. It should stay at 0. Pretty sure glofish like a lower pH so try to lower that.

 

[WoopAhhh]

Oh, I feel like an *******, ahah.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Hi everyone,

today I noticed 1 of my Glofish hiding on the bottom corner of the tank (12 gal bow front with heater, filter, bio wheel, air stone)

He wasn't doing this yesterday

There are 4 Glofish total in the tank, he is the smallest. I have noticed the largest (prob a female, very large belly) chasing the others more. The others are still swimming around just the smallest one hiding

He (?) isn't gasping, color is good, fins seem fine although he might be clamping them a bit and his tail fin sometimes droops a bit, no discolorations that I can notice (he is small and red so it's harder to see but I haven't noticed anything that appears abnormal)

the tank has been set up for one month, changing water 1-2x per day and testing 2-3x per day with API kit. tank is not yet cycled. Most recent levels were:

Tonight at 8 pm: ph 7.6, ammonia 0.25, nitrates/nitrites both 0
[edited to add]: This morning 2:30 AM: just tested ammonia (was worried it was too high) which was still 0.25; did a 4 gal pwc
This morning (Friday) 9:00 AM: ammonia still 0.25; ph off the chart dark blue (having issues with ph lately, am baffled); high range ph 7.4, no nitrates/nitrites[/edit]

I then did a 1 gal water change to see if his behavior changed but didn't. He has been coming up to eat but seems leery and tries to stay away from other fish

Don't want this cutie to die from stress, is there anything I can do ? Not sure why this is happening now as they've been in the tank together for a while now. Thank you

[edit: just saw the sticky on the Q's to answer when posting here, sorry, here are my answers, some info may be repeated from above:]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability -
small Glofish, hiding/hovering in back corner of tank near filter and heater; he does come up to eat

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
Thurs at 8 pm: ph 7.6, ammonia 0.25, nitrates/nitrites both 0
This morning 2:30 AM: just tested ammonia (was worried it was too high) which was still 0.25; did a 4 gal pwc
This morning 9:00 AM: ammonia still 0.25; ph off the chart dark blue (having issues with ph lately, am baffled); high range ph 7.4, no nitrates/nitrites

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
12 gal Marineland Bowfront
For the first two weeks I had a 5 gal hex; tank wasn't cycled yet; worried that it was too small for the fish so I upgraded to the 12 gal; all water parameters were the same. Larger tank has been up for about 2 weeks now

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
The system that came with the aquarium

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
4 Glofish; I think there are 2 males, 2 femals
One is very large (female I think), the other two are smaller but not the smallest (one male one female I'm guessing) and the one with the hiding issue is the smallest. I haven't tried to measure them but can do so if it would help

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
I usually change about 2 gals - 6 gals at a time depending on ammonia;
ammonia hasn't risen from 0.25 which is the highest reading I've gotten so far
I change water 1-2x daily

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
Had two of the fish for a month (got them when the 5 gal was set up); originally had 3. One died (after my first pwc which went horribly and this fish was already stressed and being bullied); I returned to PetSmart who advised to get 2 more to even out the numbers and minimize bullying. So two have been in the tank since the beginning about a month, the other two (including the one hiding) are newest and have been in there for 2+ weeks.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
When I upgraded to the larger tank I moved over the deco and substrate but it obviously wasn't enough to fill a 12 gal, so I added more new substrate and some new decor and fake plants. Nothing new since then.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
No changes. I mostly give them Omega flakes 1x per day and 1-2x per week I treat them with dried bloodworms

Small PWC don't do the same as a big one. I'd suggest a 50-60% PWC right away and 50% for a couple more days until the ammo is 0ppm. I'd say the chances of your tank being cycled are slim, given the time frame you posted. I suggest you read thru the link below and figure you've got a month of daily PWC ahead of you.

Edit: Your pH is fine and fish adjust to it in all but extreme cases. As long the pH is stable, I'd recommend not messing with it. Raising ph is easy (relatively speaking), lowering it is at best tricky and if unstable can be very harmful to fish IME.

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

 

[siva]

You said they've been in the tank for a while, but you have no nitrite yet so you seem to be in the beginning stages of the cycle still..these guys would still have a long rough rode ahead if you keep them in the tank. How long has the tank been running?

I would recommend 29 gals for glo fish/zebra danios (they are the same fish). They are schooling fish that need to be kept in groups of no less than 6, and are incredibly active. A 20 long would be the absolute minimum tank size for them IMO. It's length they need, not the height so much.

Your tank is not cycled yet, so the fish could be suffering stress from the ammonia, or it could just be stress because there is only 4 glo fish.

I keep a school of 6 glo fish that zips around the tank beautifully...one just died, the other 5 are split apart amongst the tank having nothing to do with eachother, or chasing eachother about nipping. It's like night and day between having 5 and 6 of them (I would have already purchased another but my lfs was out when I went in). These fish absolutely need to be in a school of no less than 6 or they are clearly stressed.

It sounds like you are using a liquid master kit? That's great! I would strongly recommend you take the glo fish back to the store and do a fishless cycle. Then you can start fresh with fish more suitable for a 12 gal and you won't have any probs with fish dying from ammonia poisoning

Edit: re-read that and I see the timeframe you listed. The tank is definitely not cycled.

 

[siva]

Ammonia seems high. It should stay at 0. Pretty sure glofish like a lower pH so try to lower that.

No..trying to alter your pH right now is a bad idea. Fish need a stable pH. Your pH is not going to be stable while your tank is still cycling. Your pH is likely higher than it will typically be because of the ammo present in the water. It should stabilize on it's own after your cycle completes.

 

[siva]

I'm surprised after this long you have no nitrites. To clarify my question above, are you using a liquid test kit or test strips?

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks for the replies everyone

Yes it's GLO fish (danios), not Goldfish

When I got them I didn't know they needed to be in a 20+ gal. I had them in a 5. I upgraded to 12 gal. At some point (in the future) I'd like to upgrade further but it isn't feasible right now as I need to take care of some other expenses and the current stand they are on isn't big enough to hold a bigger tank.

I''m going to do a 60% change now. Ammo is still at 0.25, going to see if I can get it down. Yes I am using an API kit.

It's been a month with readings of ammo 0-0.25 (lately it's holding closer to 0.25 even with change but as I said I'll do a massive change now). Ph is going nuts, but I have that posted on another thread. No nitrates/nitrites yet and not sure why it's taking this long.

Actually today he seems to have stopped hiding some, so that's a good sign. But I'm going to do the pwc now and retest before and after again.

I also bought some new decorations; the two I have in there aren't providing good hiding places; one is a cave but the entrance is low to the gravel and they don't swim that low usually so I guess they haven't seen it. I'll rinse those off in tap water and then old aquarium water before I put them in. (hope that's OK!?).

Thanks everyone.

 

[siva]

Yeah super hot tap water. If you plan on keeping them in your tank, up your number to 6 danios when cycling is complete and they won't need hiding places

It's gone quite a while now without hitting nitrites. Sounds like it's going to be a brutally long fish-in cycle. Have you considered going fishless instead?

 

[librarygirl]

Yeah super hot tap water. If you plan on keeping them in your tank, up your number to 6 danios when cycling is complete and they won't need hiding places

It's gone quite a while now without hitting nitrites. Sounds like it's going to be a brutally long fish-in cycle. Have you considered going fishless instead?

I don't know what I'm doing wrong....

I changed 7 gals of water. Treated with Prime. Granted I did move some decorations etc but usually when I do things in there they are curious and it doesn't seem to bother them. Of course the tank does look a bit different now that things were moved/added so maybe that's what it is, but...

Now most of them are hiding at the bottom, moving their mouths, one is hovering at the top. SOmetimes they venture out but mostly I have to look hard to find them (thought they were all dead then found them hiding at the bottom). They could be freaked out as I said. So I just did another API test (I even bought a new kit today in case my other one was defective) and if I'm reading the test right I STILL have 0.25 ammonia. How is that possible? I'm starting to hate the API test b/c it's hard to tell the difference between 0 and 0.25 ammonia. In the tube, in some light, it looks yellow. In other light, it looks light green. Next to the card it looks light green (images attached).

So now I don't know whether to put them through another pwc or wait.

And yes i have thought of going fishless many times. But I don't have anyone who could keep the fish for me. And if I take them back to PetSmart, well, my experience with them is that they may not be taken care of any better there. I don't know what to do.

 

[siva]

I'm having a terrible fish day..so I understand.

That doesn't look like .25 ammo to me, but it's so hard to tell in pics. It looks about right to me, for after a pwc if there was .25 to begin with.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong....

I changed 7 gals of water. Treated with Prime. Granted I did move some decorations etc but usually when I do things in there they are curious and it doesn't seem to bother them. Of course the tank does look a bit different now that things were moved/added so maybe that's what it is, but...

Now most of them are hiding at the bottom, moving their mouths, one is hovering at the top. SOmetimes they venture out but mostly I have to look hard to find them (thought they were all dead then found them hiding at the bottom). They could be freaked out as I said. So I just did another API test (I even bought a new kit today in case my other one was defective) and if I'm reading the test right I STILL have 0.25 ammonia. How is that possible? I'm starting to hate the API test b/c it's hard to tell the difference between 0 and 0.25 ammonia. In the tube, in some light, it looks yellow. In other light, it looks light green. Next to the card it looks light green (images attached).

So now I don't know whether to put them through another pwc or wait.

And yes i have thought of going fishless many times. But I don't have anyone who could keep the fish for me. And if I take them back to PetSmart, well, my experience with them is that they may not be taken care of any better there. I don't know what to do.

All those tests look good to me, really good as a matter of fact and I see it as 0ppm on the ammo. Remember that when testing, check right at the five minute mark (sans pH) and hold the tube up to the white stripe on the card and in good light (no shadow).

 

[librarygirl]

All those tests look good to me, really good as a matter of fact and I see it as 0ppm on the ammo. Remember that when testing, check right at the five minute mark (sans pH) and hold the tube up to the white stripe on the card and in good light (no shadow).

So could be the reason they are hiding, etc is that they are skittish from my moving stuff around? I'll let them settle the rest of the night and check levels again in the morning, hopefully they'll calm down and live through the night.

Thank you both! Must be my eyes then, it looks yellow in the tube but then as soon as I hold it up to the card it starts to look greenish. If that's the case then there's probably few instances where I've had actual 0.25 ammonia levels. And if that's the case then....will my tank not cycle if there's hardly any ammonia in it?

Ugh I'm going in circles.... Sorry to be a pain.... Just feeling frustrated (I''m NEVER gonna see any nitrites/nitrates) and like a bad fish mommy today..... Thanks for your help.

 

[siva]

I think it looks between 0 and .25, which is exactly where it would be if it was at .25 and you did a 50% pwc. It takes longer, yes, which is why a fish-in cycle takes so much longer than fishless.

You are not a pain! Not at all.

 

[librarygirl]

I think it looks between 0 and .25, which is exactly where it would be if it was at .25 and you did a 50% pwc. It takes longer, yes, which is why a fish-in cycle takes so much longer than fishless.

You are not a pain! Not at all.

Thanks. So if the levels are all ok why are they hanging around the top of the tank now? All 4of them are very close to the surface hardly moving?! I even tried to coax them with dried bloodworms which they go nuts for but they ignored them. I don't know what to do? I'm going to leave that side of the room dark and hope they're just freaked out from the large pwc and my moving stuff around. I don't know what else the problem could be at this point. I didn't overdose on Prime so I don't think that's it (although putting it in 1-2x daily for pwc could build up? Maybe?) , I put in 2 drops per gal as it says on the bottle but my bucket hold 2.5 gals so I'll add 5 drops per bucket and sometimes I put in a couple of extra drops just in case.

Ugh I'm going insane lol

 

[Mr. Limpet]

So could be the reason they are hiding, etc is that they are skittish from my moving stuff around? I'll let them settle the rest of the night and check levels again in the morning, hopefully they'll calm down and live through the night.

Thank you both! Must be my eyes then, it looks yellow in the tube but then as soon as I hold it up to the card it starts to look greenish. If that's the case then there's probably few instances where I've had actual 0.25 ammonia levels. And if that's the case then....will my tank not cycle if there's hardly any ammonia in it?

Ugh I'm going in circles.... Sorry to be a pain.... Just feeling frustrated (I''m NEVER gonna see any nitrites/nitrates) and like a bad fish mommy today..... Thanks for your help.

Nope, neither a pain or a bad fish mommy. You're willing to put the time and effort in to get it right, that makes you a very good fish keeper IMO.

Sad part is some LFS sell fish to people and tell them to let the fish suffer and force the cycle and then come in and get the fish they really want.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Thanks. So if the levels are all ok why are they hanging around the top of the tank now? All 4of them are very close to the surface hardly moving?! I even tried to coax them with dried bloodworms which they go nuts for but they ignored them. I don't know what to do? I'm going to leave that side of the room dark and hope they're just freaked out from the large pwc and my moving stuff around. I don't know what else the problem could be at this point. I didn't overdose on Prime so I don't think that's it (although putting it in 1-2x daily for pwc could build up? Maybe?) , I put in 2 drops per gal as it says on the bottle but my bucket hold 2.5 gals so I'll add 5 drops per bucket and sometimes I put in a couple of extra drops just in case.

Ugh I'm going insane lol

Sounds like lack of o2 and an air stone can help that. Prime doesn't build up like salt or something and in fact Prime can be dosed to 5x normal in some cases.

 

[librarygirl]

Sounds like lack of o2 and an air stone can help that. Prime doesn't build up like salt or something and in fact Prime can be dosed to 5x normal in some cases.

Thanks, I have a 4 inch airstone and the filter output provides bubbles, seems like the surface is agitating. I'm seriously considering taking them back tomorrow and going fish less. If I hadn't invested so much money into this already I prob would take them back and put the tank away. I obviously stink at this