Goldfish Feeling Poorly

[Andres98789]

Hi All,

I will give you the answers to the questions first before I explain the problem.

1~What type of fish is afflicted? comet goldfish almost two years old. He has been floating near the surface of the water or sitting at the bottom of the tank for almost 3 months now. He doesn't swim around and he's also having buoyancy problems as his head is always down and tail up as if the tail end was full of air. Sometimes he seems to be almos vertically trying to swim and the rest of the time he just sits there in a corner very lethargic not swiming around or floating near the surface. About 2 months ago I tried not feeding him for a couple of days and then feeding him peas, but it didn't help so I went back to feeding him flake food. I'm about to try feeding him some peas and zucchini before fasting him for 3 days then try peas for a couple of days as adviced in another forum. His poop is also very thin white and long and it's got air bubbles in it and I've heard this is due to bacterial infections as it will also affect the fish's buoyancy and make him switch from floating at the top of the tank to sitting at the bottom suddenly like mine is doing. The poo problem has been going on for about 2 weeks now (not 3 months like the floating problem) Yesterday a big white fluffy spot apeard on his body near his hear (see pic) it looked like a big dimple but with fluffy cotton. Could this be parasite or could it be due to the bacterial infection that I'm assuming he has? The spot had completely disapeared this morning leaving only a very tiny white mark that is barely visible (I wouldn't know the spot was there if I hadn't seen it) but I noticed a bit of fuzzy fluff aroun his gills (only a little bit and on one side only) but when I had a look an hours later that had disapear too. could this be gone so quickly? What could this be? parasites or bacterial infection? or both maybe? I'm thinking from what I have read that he might have a bacterial infection because of his poo and buoyancy problems but then the spot and the white fungus like fluff that was there this morning seem to be parasites from what I have read so far even though the spot and fluff around his gills have gone as quickly as they apeared. How can treat him so he can go back to swimming happily in the tank like his mate?

2~What are your tank parameters I had the water tested at the pet store 3 weeks ago (before I moved them to the current tank from a smaller one) and I was told the water was fine. It was tested for ammonia levels: nil. Nitrite level: nil. Nitrate levels: were a bit high when it was tested, but did a 40% water change. pH was 8. The water tempreture has been betwen 72 and 80 recently as the weather has been hot, but now it seems to be between 74 and 78. I'm sorry I can not give you exact values as it was tested at the store and my own test kit hasn't arrived in the post yet. The tank was cycled for 3 weeks with some ornaments, gravel and media from the smaller matured tank to help it along and I made sure the water was right for them before transfering them to their new home.
3~ How large is the tank? The tank is 125 litres JUWEL RIO. I was set up 6 weeks ago, cycled for 3 weeks until levels were right and the fish has been there for 3 weeks now.
4~What type of filtration are you using? The filter is the one that came with the tank JUWEL Filter Compact H 230 V - 1 x Pump Set 600 L Per hour
5~How many fish are in the tank? Two fish including the sick one. The other fish is a common goldfish which seems to be perfectly fine with no problems at all and hopefully he'll continue that way.
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? The last water change was done today and I do them weekly changing 20% of the water. I trat the water with aquasafe solution. I haven't vacummed the gravle yet in this new tank, but I'm planning to do it next week.
7~How long have you had the fish? I've had the fish for about 19 months and they were in a 30l tank until I read a bit about goldfish and realised that the tank was too small so I transfered them to the new 120l tank 3 weeks ago hoping that it will help his buoyancy problems and stop him form being lethargic.
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? Nothing has been added since the tank was set up 6 weeks ago.
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently? I normally feed them goldfish flake food that I soak in tank water for a minute first to make them sink and stop them from comming to the surface and swallowing air, but i recently bought a container of granules that I fed them once (about 1 week ago) I don't think they're a very good quality so I only gave it to them once as they floated all the time even after soaking them for a while. I also tried feeding them peas about 2 months ago which he ate but nothing changed. I'm gonna feed them nice varied good quality food from now on including some veggies.


How can I treat the poor guy and what treatment should I try? I have this bottle of PROTOZIN white spot and fungus treatment that I bought a couple of months ago because I thought the common goldfish has ich, but it turned out he was just going white (he's never had probems and seems very happY) so I never opened the bottle. Another site also recomended Myxazin, but I looked around and there Myxazin P and Myxazin. Which treatment should I give him? I'm currently putting some Fish Tonic (contanins magnesium sulphate 33.33%, sodium chloride 11.11%) in the water that is suppose to help with stress and help them fight infections, I've just started a couple of days ago and it's suppose to be put in the tank every 2 days so I'm about to put some more in today. Should I continue with this?

When I know what treatment to give him, should I be worried about treating him in the same tank with his mate in it? Will the treatment affect him? The other option would be to set up the small tank again and use it as a hospital tank, but it would take weeks to cycle and I want to treat whatever he's got asap. The smaller tank still hasn't been cleaned and still has the old filter media and old water in it.

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I want want the little guy to be happy again. Just to make it easier I have listed the questions below:
-What treatment should I use? Anti bacterial, fungus or both?
-Should I try not feeding them for a three days and then feeding them peas and maybe zucchini? if so, how many peas should i feed them a day?
-Will the treatment (whatever i might be) help with his lethargic mood and his buoyancy?
-Should I treat him in the same tank with his mate?
-Should I continue using the fish tonic?
- Will the fungus like fluff come back?
- Is the spot gone forver now?

Please help! I've never had any problems with the fish before so I might be panicking a bit, but I just want to see him swimming around like he used to instead of just sitting around or floating like that and his gut can't be well if he's got poop like that.

Many thanks,

 

[Andres98789]

Another pic to help you see the spot better even though it has now disapeared

 

[jsoong]

How big are the fish?

Commons tend not to get buoyancy problems unless there is something wrong. From the description, I would think that a bacterial infection is most likely. <Fuzziness around the body can be columnaris, aka Flexibacter, which is a bacterial infection, even though it is commonly called "body fungus">

The best treatment is actually food containing antibiotic, rather than in the water. Kanamycin would be the one to use. <This side of the pond, the goldfish bugs are now mostly resistant to the old standbys - like erythromycin or tetracycline.> Kanamycin can be used in the water if the fish is not eating, although not as effective. <Note I can't find the ingredient list on Myxezin, so I can't advice on that.> There are other anti-biotics that you may try. Some would also use injectables if the fish is bigger. <You need a vet, or at least some medical skills/supplies.>

Medi-Gold & Medi-Koi are 2 food that contains kanamycin. There are others. Plus, you can get kanamycin on its own (eg Kenaplex). Some info on medicated food:
The Goldfish and Aquarium Board (GAB) Articles - Medicated Food Explained and Explored
Goldfish and Aquarium Board Article-Over the Counter Fish Medicines

 

[Andres98789]

Hi,

The common gold fish is perfectly fine. The comet goldfish is the one with the buoyancy problem. I'm a bit confused as to what to use now. Was recomended Myxezin for bacterial infections, but now I'm not sure if I should get Kanamycin instead. I think the accitive ingredients in Myxazin are Malachite Green (0.17% w/v), Formaldehyde (0.24% w/v) and Acriflavine (0.11% w/v). from what a read somewhere else, not sure if true.

Thank you very much for the advice. I'll try to do a bit more research on it.

 

[jsoong]

By common I meant single tailed goldfish (as opposed to doubled tailed fancies) .... Comets & shubunkins are consider breeds of commons ... <Sorry to be confusing!>

That combo of Malachite Green/Formaldehyde/Acriflavine is the same as "Quick Cure" in N. America. This is primary used to treat ick or other surface parasites. It won't do much for internal parasite or bacterial infection. I think one of the anti-biotic containing food would be a better choice.

 

[Andres98789]

Thanks for your advice.

I'm really panicking now. I came in this morning to find the poor fish with most of his tail rotting away. I originally thought that the other fish had been eating his tail as he's a bit agressive, but I read a few articles about finrot and it seems to be that. Do you guys think that the other fish could have been eating his tail? I hope it's finrot and I hope it can be fixed. I'm so worried now that his tail might not grow back. Why has he suddenly got all this problems? I have started him on Interpet Antibacterial Treatment as I can't seem to get antibiotic food in the UK, I ordered the Myzaxin, but it hasn't arrived. Will this help with his fin? I will also get an aquarium divider because I think the other one is bullying him and that might be the reason why his tail is like that.

Please help I need some advise asap.
I will upload a pic later on today when I get home. I have also fed them with new frozen food which they seem to like, but now I'm really worried about his tail. Will it regrow?

 

[jsoong]

Goldfish tend not to be fin nippers, so ragged fins are more likely an infection then injury. OTOH, being bullied can really stress out as fish, so if you see a lot of bullying, a divider may be useful.

As long as the rays (the bony lines that runs down the tail) are intact, fin rot will grow back once you get the infection controlled. Once a ray is gone, the tail will not grow back.

In addition to anti-bacterials, it is important to keep really clean water conditions. (Also watch that the anti-bacterial in the water doesn't kill off your bio-filter, which will make things worse. I would chaeck water parameters daily & do water changes as needed.) In addition, a bit of salt (~0.1%) will also help with surface wounds like fin rot.

 

[Andres98789]

Thank you very much jsoong,

I will post a couple of pic so hopefully you'll be able to tell me if i will grow back not (I hope it's not too late, it seems pretty bad)

Can finrot get this bad in a couple of days? left them for the weekend and it went from pic 1 to pic 2. It was because of the damage that i thought the other fish had been eating away at his tail all weekend as I left them without food to help to clear their digestive track before the anti bacterial treatment and he's normally agressive anyway.

I did some research and stopped the anti internal bacteria treatment and did a 50% water change an currently running the carbon filter for 24 hours before starting him on Interpet No 8 (Anti Fungus and Finrot) treatment. I have also read that Melafix is good after a treatment to help the fish recover, but not good to kill the bacteria that causes finrot. I wish there was more options in the UK as in the US so I could give him some proper antibiotics. What do you think about this Interpet No 8 treatment? the active ingredient is Phenoxyethanol and it says it won't affect the filter. Do you think all his problems and infections are related?

One last question: should i do normal weekly water changes whilst treating tank with medication or should i do daily water changed, if i need to do the second then should I replace the amount of medication lost in with the water change even if the treatment dose is once every 7 days?

Thank you very much for all your help Jsoong, I really appreciate you taking the time to help.
PS: I have highlighted the stuff i'm having problems with.

 

[jsoong]

That tail looks pretty bad. It might grow back a bit but I doubt it will get back to that lyre tail look in the before pic. I have had a fish that lost the entire tail over a weekend, so I guess it is possible for fin rot to move that fast. I don't keep single tails, but FAIK, they don't bite. They swallow prey whole. So I rather doubt that he can take a chunk out of a tail.

I have no experience with the Interpet products. The ingredient appears to be a mild anti-septic, should be useful for external infections. It is quite possible that fin rot is associated with other ailments. In Veiltails esp. (yours looks like it has tail as long as a veil) the tail fins starts to get ragged as soon as fish get stressed. My guess is that the (abnormally) long tail has poor blood supply so is the first to get into problems when the fish's immunity goes down.

I would base my water change on how the water is doing. I check water parameters daily. I do daily water changes if there is any hint of ammonia or nitrites; otherwise, I do my usual weekly. If you do water changes, you would need to replace the med that you took out.

 

[Andres98789]

Thank you very much jsoong,

Your input is really helpfull.

I checked the water today and it was very good. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, very low levels of nitrates 8 I think and PH was 8.2 (not sure about the PH, but have been told by a few people tht goldfish prefer a higher PH than other fish. Is this true?

I'm gonna use this Interpet treatment for at least 4 - 5 days and see if it works, if there is no change or he starts getting worse then I will immediately change to Myxazin which is suppose to be better and a bit stronger (I think) than the Interpet treatment.

I wanted to try to get some prescribed antibiotic food from the vet, but apparently they need to see the fish before they can prescribe anything and pictures are not enough, I'm a bit unsure about stressing him more by taking him to the vet as he's very weak and has also developed a lump on his side that looks like his insides are swollen which I assume must be his swim bladder because he's having more problems swimming now (can this be from the internal bacterial infection he must have that is really affecting his swim bladder?)

I think the vet will be the last option if this treatments don't work.

Many thanks once again for your help.

 

[jsoong]

pH of 8.2 is just fine for goldfish. They do prefer a bit higher pH, 7.5+.

Swollen belly is not a good sign. This is likely ascites - fluid buildup in the abdomen. This may be sign of kidney/other organ failure. Internal bacterial infection can certainly cause swimbladder disorder & eventually leading to other organ damage. <Other possibility would be gut impaction, a tumor, or possibly an abscess.>

One thing to check would be generalized fluid retention (aka dropsy). Check & see if his eyes are bulging or if the scales are sticking out (like a pinecone). Often ascites will progress to dropsy. <That is not a good sign.>

Of all the causes, the only one that might respond to treatment would be an internal bacterial infection. I am surprised that you can not get any over the counter anti-biotics. You might see if you can get kanamycin. There are recipes on making your own antibiotic food using that. I don't know if you can get Jungle's anti-bacterial/anti-parasitic food. That is becoming wildly available here, even in the chain pet stores. Using both together is another option.

 

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

Thanks for the advice,

He is swollen and I'm worried that it might be what you sugested. He's not rounded swollen, but more like only in certain parts of his abdomen. He has one single scale sticking out a tiny bit, you can only notice it if you look closely. Could it be because he's constipated? I noticed his poop was think and long yesterday. I will leave him with no food over the weekend I think. I will upload a pic tonight to you can see him.

I've searched and searched and I haven't found any antibiotic food for sale in the uk. The jungle stuff is defianately not for sale in the UK I'm pretty sure Kanamycin is not either which is a shame because the best treatment available seems to be the products from Waterlife like OCTOZIN or Myxazin. Do you recomend using one of these products if nothing else available? I'm currently treating him for finrot with Interpet Anti Fungus and Finrot, but the treatment will end on Monday and it is definately not helping with his swollen abdomen or his buoyancy problems which I assume are related so I really need to treat him for that. Do you suggest treating him with Myxazin or Octozin to help him?

Please let me know.

Many thanks for all your help.

 

[jsoong]

Constipation is a possibility, although it is not usually associated with finrot. However, there is no harm in treating for it. You might try to feed him peas after a day of fasting. <Shelled, blanched & chopped.> If the fish is bigger (say 3-4"+), you could be more aggressive & bury one grain of Epsom Salt (MgSO4) in the pea as a laxative if plain peas don't work.

I was doing a bit of research & it seems that OTC antibiotics are illegal in the UK. That is problematic as it will cost big money to get prescription meds for your fish from a vet.

I have no experience with Waterlife's meds. They are secretive on the ingredients so I can't make any intelligent comments. However, I would think that it would contain mostly dyes & other chemicals that are bactericidal. These are good for surface infections, but I don't think they do much for internal diseases.

 

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

Thanks for the quick reply. His poop is thinner than yesterday today and the same colour of his food, but it still trails for a long time and it's quite long (what does this mean?)

I think the last resort would be taking him to the vet. I don't really want to move him around, but if it's the only way to make him better then I'll do it. I do have a few more question and I would be most grateful if you could be advise on what you think the best step is for next week before taking him to the vet.

I'm gonna finish the current treatment (Interpet No 8) on Monday. He's not getting worse which is a good sign like you said, but I'm unsure as to what I should do next. I am pretty sure that he will not be back to normal by Monday so I need to know what the next step would be best for him.

1) Should I do a normal water change after the treatment finishes or should it be a 50 % one?
2) Should I put another dose of the same treatment in for another 7 days to make sure that it has worked?
3) Should I leave him for a few days and change him to Myxazin which seems to be better and might treat him for the internal infection at the same time?
4) Should I leave him for a couple of days and treat him with Melafix which is suppose to encourage fin re-growth and help the healing process once the bad bacteria has been killed? - This would mean leving his internal infection untreated.
5) Should I leave him for a couple of days and treat him with aquarium salt only and see if he gets better just with salt, which I doubt because I think he has had this infection for a while.
6) Should I move him to another tank? The second tank is not cycled so I assume this is not an option because I don't want to put him under any unneeded stress.

Many thanks and sorry for asking so many questions and writing such long posts, I just don't want him to die because of my ignorance and later find out that I could have saved him if I had done thing differently.

 

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

In the fiirst picture I have highlighted the areas where it looks like there something inflamed inside pushing it out and it makes his other side look swollen, or it could be that becausehe is swollen on the other side it's pushing some organs on the marked areas.

In the second picture I have marked the same areas maybe you can see them better.

In the third picture I have highlighted the areas when he's got the lump that it's making his tail bent, but then again it could be the other reason like I said above about his other side being swollen. I also highlighted how his poop was today (long, but not a bad colour) and how his tail is looking today. Hopefully this pics will help a bit.

 

[jsoong]

This is a tough one to call ...

From the pics, I concluded:
1. The lump (fish's left) is unlikely to be ascites, it is too high (dorsal).
2. The location is about the level of the swim bladder. It is possible that it is the caudal lobe. But the SB is a midline structure, bulging out on one side ... less likely.
3. You might try to gently feel the lump if the fish is cooperative (wet hands, do it underwater). If it feels squishy, it is an abscess; Fleshy ones, prob tumors.
4. If the fish is permanently bent like in the pic, it is likely a muscular/skeletal problem. Some fish are genetically predisposed to bent back, but if this occurs relatively suddenly, it might be due to a tumor/abscess in the muscles or bone. It may also be a tuberculous granuloma. <fish tb>
5. The right side may be swollen, or it might just look like that with the fish bent. Can't really tell on the pics. Did it look more swollen to you compared to before?

What to do is the more difficult question ....
1. QTing the fish is good general principle, to prevent infecting the other fish, and to concentrate your treatment on the sick fish. OTOH, this is balanced against the harm of being in a smaller, uncycled tank. If your hospital tank is relatively big (10 gal +) and you have 2 filters on the main tank so you can take one to the hospital (making it cycled), then I say go for it. Otherwise, it is a toss up. It depends on how well you can maintain water quality in the hosp tank ... daily checking & large water changes is in order if you decided to go that route.
2. Adding/Switching meds - it is generally bad idea to switch to one med & then another without giving the meds time to work. I tend to stick to one treatment regime for 10-14 days & only switch if there is a clear indication.
3. I don't think water changes will hurt, but 50% prob not necessary at this time.
4. Adding salt might help. Personally, I use salt for most minor finrot & external parasites. Salt & clean water is as good as most meds for finrot IMO.
5. Long thin white poop (looks like mucous strings) indicates an internal gut infection. But if the poop is normal size & color of the food, it is prob just a bit of constipation.
6. Going to the vet - prob only worthwhile if the fish is valuable (at least to you). Unless that lump is a bacterial abscess, I am not sure if the vet can do too much if indeed the fish has bent back.

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer for you. It is a bit of guesswork as to what is causing the problem in your case.

 

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

Thanks fr the advice.

Today his tail seems to be much better and looks like it's growing back a bit at least (lets hope he carries on like that)

He's still just sitting at the bottom of the tank behind a rock all the time except when I feed them which is the only time that he swims around a bit, but then after eating he goes back to sitting at the bottom of the tank breathing a bit faster than normal.

His poop does look a lot more like mucous strings today. didn't feed them anything all weekend, but I still found him this morning with a very clear white poop. There's a bit of white in the middle of of the clear mucus like poop. What do you think it is? Gut infection or constipation? He looks bloated to me.

He's also not so crooked anymore, but still a bit. Hopefully that is a sign that he's recovering. I will give him a couple of days without medicines and then I'm very tempted to give him that Myxazin to treat any internal or gut infections he might have. Do you think the shrimp and garlic frozen food i'm giving him will help with the gut infection if that's what he's got?

Should I try just some salt first and see how it goes before rushing into treating him with myxazin?

I will post a couple of pics for you to have a look at him a bit later.

Many thanks,

 

[jsoong]

White mucousy poop often indicates internal gut infection. The best treatment is anti-biotic food. But since you can't get any, you might try the Myxazin if he isn't better in a few days.

Garlic & shrimp won't hurt. Garlic might even do some good. You might also try some peas/other veggies.

 

[Andres98789]

Hi,

I'll give him some peas tomorrow. I had a good look at his poop and it's actually long clear mucus like poop with a very thin zig zag white line inside.
I read this somewhere: ''Zig Zag and clear long poop =-possibly dispersing absorbed eggs'' I don't think that's right in my fish's case do you? The clear mucus is not acctually in a zig zag shape, but the think white poop inside is. What does this mean?

I also had a good look at him and his eyes are bulging out more than normal (one more than the other) I did a little research and it says it can be for a number of reasons, one of the reasons being that the water is over-saturated and a sign of this is that you can see tiny bubbles in the water and I can see them. The first time I noticed them was on Wednesday last week after I put the first dose of medication in so I thought it was due to the medication, but it could also be because of the 50% water change I did on Tuesday. How can I fix the water so it's not over-saturated before he gets worse with his eyes? Could this als be due to the internal bacterial infection that he seems to have judging by his poop and by the way he just stays at the bottom of the tank all days except when feeding?

He looks a lot better with not being crooked so much anymore and his tail seems to be growing back a bit, but now he's got this eye problem and he's definately not feeling well.

What does his poop mean? How can I fix the water so it's not over-saturated? can I treat his eye problem with Myxazin as this seems to be the closest thing to antibiotics that we can get here?

Thank you very much!

 

[jsoong]

You only get water with supersaturated gases if you get it from a deep well. You can let it out gas by aerating it in a bucket overnight before putting it in your tank. <And if it is the cause, you should see it in both eyes & all your fish ....>

"popeye" is more likely an infection. It can be an early sign of dropsy, or can be a sign of an internal parasite. Retained eggs casing looks like a string of little sausages - a string of white mucous with regular little bumps. Is that what you are seeing?

The big picture - lethargy, finrot, lump on side, bent tail, buoyancy problem, white stringy poop, ? popeye, ? swollen side - certainly seem more like an internal ailment than something innocuous. Whether it is bacterial, parasite, or other causes I can't say.

I normally don't treat every little thing I see on my fish. <Clean water will cure most ailments!> But when this many things are wrong, I think treatment is warranted.