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Old 09-08-2005, 04:09 PM   #1
Jim
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Goldfish Hanging out on the Bottom

Hello all. I am rather concerned about one of my fish and I was hoping I could get some advice on what may be the problem. I have a large Comet that recently contracted fin rot So I moved him to the isolation tank and started treating him with tetracycline....after 3 days he is looking better, eating a little, but he hangs out on the bottom all the time now except when I add the tetracycline. He has been an extremely hardy fish with this being his first illness in ~5 years. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 09-08-2005, 07:12 PM   #2
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what size tank is your fish in? Can you test the water for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels? These will help us figure out your problem. Make sure you are keeping the tanks clean since goldfish are big producers of waste.

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Old 09-08-2005, 08:04 PM   #3
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Well normally he is in the 47 gallon tank but since the tail rot he was moved to the 29 gallon isolation tank.

In the isolation tank:
Ammonia tests below what is detectable on the store kit. As do the nitrite and nitrate levels.

Edit:
Sorry for not including this originally I was at work.

The Filtration for the isolation tank is a Penguin 200, pH is 7.1, the temp is 73 right now.

The normal tank is a 47 gallon tank.
Filtration is a Rena Filstar XP1 and a Penguin 350
Temp is 73.
pH 7.2
Nitrite and Nitrate levels are below detection on the store kits.
Ammonia is what lead to the problem with the fin rot originally........it is usually below 1 ppm but spiked to above 4 and then he got sick. Not sure why it spiked doing the same 1/4 water changes a week.

He is a 6 year old Comet (9 inches long), only tank mate is a 1 year old pleco that is about 6 inches. They get along remarkably well.
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Old 09-09-2005, 12:05 PM   #4
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That is very strange that you have ANY ammonia reading in a tank that is 4 years old. Ammonia in there indicates that your tank has not cycled. You say that it is "usually below 1ppm," which suggests that you usually have ammonia readings in there?

Do you change all your water and media during water changes? If so, you have never allowed your tank to cycle, and the ammonia fluctuations will be very hard on your fish. Otherwise I can't imagine why you have ammonia readings but no nitrates.
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Old 09-09-2005, 01:31 PM   #5
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That is very strange that you have ANY ammonia reading in a tank that is 4 years old.
This tank isn't 4 years old the fish in question started in a 5 gallon, tank then a 10, then the 29, and now the 47. So he has been i nthis tank only since about January.

Quote:
Ammonia in there indicates that your tank has not cycled. You say that it is "usually below 1ppm," which suggests that you usually have ammonia readings in there?
Yeah I have never been able to get the ammonia readings down since he got over about 6 inches long and was moved into the 29.......but he has always been really active, eats, poops, and grows.

Quote:
Do you change all your water and media during water changes? If so, you have never allowed your tank to cycle, and the ammonia fluctuations will be very hard on your fish. Otherwise I can't imagine why you have ammonia readings but no nitrates.
No I only change 1/4 of the water a week. I recently added the Biowheel filter (2 months ago) in hopes to cultivate more bacterial growth.

I have always been puzzled by the ammonia for hte last 2 years or so but he was happy, healthy, active, and growing so........[/quote]
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:03 PM   #6
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Either your tests are wrong, or there is something preventing your tank from cycling. What test kit do you use? Do you use any chemicals or additives in your tank other than dechlorinator?
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by fearlessfisch
Either your tests are wrong, or there is something preventing your tank from cycling. What test kit do you use?
I use the pH, Nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia kits from aquaruim pharmaceticuls http://aquariumpharm.com/aqtest.html

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Do you use any chemicals or additives in your tank other than dechlorinator?
Just stress coat if we have to handle/move the fish for some reason.
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Old 09-10-2005, 02:19 PM   #8
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Very strange. You didn't say if you ever put meds in the regular tank....That would explain the disruption of the bio-filter, but it still wouldn't explain the the ammonia readings from before you started treating him. I would just continue with the meds, with frequent water changes in between doses to keep med levels safe and the water clean. If he doesn't appear to be improving after a while, you might consider changing to an alternative medication, as some strains of illness are resistant to tetracycline. I have heard that Maroxy is good for fin rot.

Good luck. Let us know how he does.
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Old 09-10-2005, 03:44 PM   #9
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How often do you feed? Something is amiss about your tank if you are still having ammonia readings after so many months. Overfeeding can cause this. I don't think you are underfiltered. Do you have a gph reading on those filters?

Him hanging on the bottom is usually a sign of ammonia toxicity. You should also keep an eye on him to make sure he isn't getting thin as well.

HTH
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Old 09-10-2005, 03:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by fearlessfisch
Very strange. You didn't say if you ever put meds in the regular tank....That would explain the disruption of the bio-filter, but it still wouldn't explain the the ammonia readings from before you started treating him. I would just continue with the meds, with frequent water changes in between doses to keep med levels safe and the water clean. If he doesn't appear to be improving after a while, you might consider changing to an alternative medication, as some strains of illness are resistant to tetracycline. I have heard that Maroxy is good for fin rot.

Good luck. Let us know how he does.
He is being treated in the isolation tank which is the 29 gallon tank.....we did since we had the isolation tank already setup and running because we were preping it for new fish. Since he has been moved and being treated he has been hanging out at the bottom of the isolation tank....which is unlike him.
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Old 09-10-2005, 04:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Devilishturtles
How often do you feed? Something is amiss about your tank if you are still having ammonia readings after so many months. Overfeeding can cause this.
We generally feed him once a day (except wednesday and friday because of my work schedule)...leave the food for about 5 minutes and if he doesn't eat it all we remove the remaining food.

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I don't think you are underfiltered. Do you have a gph reading on those filters?
The Rena Filstar XP2 is rated at 300 gph, and the Penguin 350 Biowheel is rated at 350 gph in the main tank. The isolation tank has a Penguin Biowheel 200 and is rated for 200 gph.

Quote:
Him hanging on the bottom is usually a sign of ammonia toxicity. You should also keep an eye on him to make sure he isn't getting thin as well.

HTH
Well he didn't start hanging around at the bottom until we moved him into the 29 gallon isolation tank (which is at 0 ppm ammonia). Even when he was sick in the 47 gallon he was moving around. Which is why I am puzzled....I figured he would do better in the isolation tank
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Old 09-10-2005, 09:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Quote:
Him hanging on the bottom is usually a sign of ammonia toxicity. You should also keep an eye on him to make sure he isn't getting thin as well.

HTH


Well he didn't start hanging around at the bottom until we moved him into the 29 gallon isolation tank (which is at 0 ppm ammonia). Even when he was sick in the 47 gallon he was moving around. Which is why I am puzzled....I figured he would do better in the isolation tank
Ahh. My bad. 8)

Can you tell if he is looking thinner than normal? How about fatter than normal?
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Old 09-11-2005, 05:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Devilishturtles
Quote:
Quote:
Him hanging on the bottom is usually a sign of ammonia toxicity. You should also keep an eye on him to make sure he isn't getting thin as well.

HTH


Well he didn't start hanging around at the bottom until we moved him into the 29 gallon isolation tank (which is at 0 ppm ammonia). Even when he was sick in the 47 gallon he was moving around. Which is why I am puzzled....I figured he would do better in the isolation tank
Ahh. My bad. 8)
No problem.

Quote:
Can you tell if he is looking thinner than normal? How about fatter than normal?
Thinner no. But bigger not really either....he has always been a large fish that flares in the front and tapers towards the tail. So if he is bigger it isn't much. When looking around I had seen dropsy mentioned as being a possibility but his scales aren't sticking up.....but I don't really have any experience with it so I don't know any other symptoms....or really what to do if that is the case.
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:12 PM   #14
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Well he finished up the recommended course of antibiotics and stayed another couple days in the isolation tank. The main tank ammonia is down to 0 ppm since he hasn't been in there......so I moved him back this morning. Came home for lunch and he was swimming around again So he was just disoriented maybe?
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:43 PM   #15
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Maybe....

Maybe he just was like "Woah...big space...I'm tiny...*shrink*" lol jk

Or maybe he just wanted to be at home sweet home
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Old 10-07-2005, 11:04 PM   #16
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Just a little update the ammonia has stayed at 0 ppm finally....that took a while....the nitrate is .25 ppm, and nitrite is 0 ppm.

Unfortunately, the pleco tankmate of the sick goldfish died yesterday
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Old 10-08-2005, 01:10 AM   #17
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Very, very odd sequence of events. Sorry to hear about your pleco
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