Goldfish keeps injuring himself - help please!

[fis]

Sand sounds good -
I didn't realize he needed that much space! Clearly the 29 he's in now is a joke...I'll start looking on craigslist...

Mel

 

[fis]

One more question (for now!) - As far as the aquarium salt, how does that help? It won't make the wound hurt more? Does it change the chemistry of the tank at all?

 

[jsoong]

Salt helps prevent secondary bacterial infections (FW bacteria don't handle salt well.) If you up the level to 0.3% or more, it can kill a lot of parasites as well.

For the low level suggested, it will not do too much to water chemistry.

Sand, or a totally bare tank is a good idea for this fish so he doesn't keep injuring himself.

What is your water change schedule? In a small tank, frequent water changes is needed. Goldfish make a lot of mess, and it is good to have clean water, even when all your levels are fine. It is possible that the tank is accumulating stuff that you can't measure (say dissolved organics), and that might be irritating the fish.

So my suggestion is to increase the water change, to 2 or more times a week. <A big fish in a small tank often need daily pwc to keep healthy.> See if clean water will help with the symptoms. <It will not hurt!>

 

[BeavisMom62]

Alright,
1. Dose the melafix for the full 7 days (follow directions on the back of the bottle)
2. Dose 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt for every 5 U.S gallons
3. Dose the salt for 7 days, then do 2 50% water changes, wait a week, and start again if not healed.
4. You need to have the filter running, but you'll need to remove the carbon in the filter if there is any.
5. Yes I did say sand, pool filter sand works best... DO NOT use paver sand.
6. You can't fix neurological damage sadly, but you can make his environment as comfy as possible.
7. If it happens again, you'll just have to keep treating I'm afraid. It's just like owning a child with special needs, you have to sacrifice some normalities that the fish can't handle.
8. The sand should help stop it from happening again.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but regarding the daily salt, don't you do w/c's every day and only add the amount of salt that you remove? You wouldn't put the same initial amount of salt in the tank every day, would you? Since, unlike antibiotics, salt doesn't become "inactive" after 24 hours. I could be wrong, as the few times that I've added salt that is what I've done, but my goldies are intolerant to salt, so I don't have much experience with it.

That really is one big beautiful fish. That has been my goal since I've started keeping goldies, to have one last that long. If you care for him correctly and assuming that he doesn't have a neuro problem, you could potentially have that fish for another 10 years. So cool!

I agree about the larger tank and increased water changes. water can never be too clean! of course with a larger tank you'll need a bigger filter, as mrlimpet said. I've got goldies in a 55 gal and am running two Aqua-Tech 30-60's on it, which is about double filtration I believe. And I too do a 50% pwc weekly which also helps.

But obviously you are doing something right to have a goldie live that long! Congrats.

 

[fis]

Thank you - clearly I'm not doing water changes frequently enough. Usually it's 1/3 of the tank every 1 1/2 - 2 weeks!! I feel awful!!!

As far as the salt...I'm not experienced with this so if anyone can offer additional feedback on the two points of view that would be great!

Thank you - he is rather handsome What's funny is that he use to be mostly orange and then he lost his color. And I appreciate the compliment, but I really never expected him to live so long and I had no prior experience with fish, and unfortunately it's been a learning experience for both of us! While I figure out how to keep him healthy I think he's had to figure out how to adjust to my craziness - lol. But thank you - I hope he does live another 10 years

 

[BeavisMom62]

Don't feel awful. For some fish 1/3 of the tank every two weeks would be fine. Its just that you have a goldie, who are notoriously dirty, and a big one at that!

I don't understand how some fish/people do it. I have a friend who has a huge oscar in a 30-40 gal tank, I think. The fish is so big he can barely turn around AND he shares that tank with a common pleco. He's had that fish for something like 10 years and its still alive. His idea of w/c's is to totally empty the entire tank a few times a year, scrub it out and put the fish back in. He thinks I'm nuts with all of the water changes I do.

I've heard of goldies turning from orange to white, or changing other colors. I had a "tuxedo" oranda, he was gold with a black "cap" and a beautiful black stripe down his back. Very striking. But the black is all gone and now he's solid orange, looks like a totally different fish.

 

[fis]

Apparently! A lot of mess for just one fish! I've already put out water to start the once per week changes...

I don't understand either...I'm constantly worried that he's cramped or uncomfortable. I can't imagine having him in a smaller tank - in fact - I feel bad for the size he's in - but he can swim about and I don't think it's too bad...of course after being on here I've started looking for a larger one...

I didn't know goldfish could change colors! I just thought he was odd...lol

 

[BeavisMom62]

Apparently! A lot of mess for just one fish! I've already put out water to start the once per week changes...

I don't understand either...I'm constantly worried that he's cramped or uncomfortable. I can't imagine having him in a smaller tank - in fact - I feel bad for the size he's in - but he can swim about and I don't think it's too bad...of course after being on here I've started looking for a larger one...

I didn't know goldfish could change colors! I just thought he was odd...lol

Yeah, apparently its not uncommon for them to change colors. Usually its the black color that they end up losing. I would love to have a white one. I saw one in a pet store once, a white fantail, in a tank that had to be at least 100 gal. Oh man did I want that fish! But I didn't have the space for him and he wasn't for sale anyway, he was a display fish. Beautiful!

 

[Sssea]

I bought a fish specifically because she had 3 black dots on her head that matched one of my tattoos. Three months later, they are completely gone!! She's almost all white now, we were super surprised.

 

[jsoong]

As far as the salt...I'm not experienced with this so if anyone can offer additional feedback on the two points of view that would be great!

To use salt properly, you maintain a certain concentration, you do not dose daily like meds.

1 teaspoon per gal is a low level of ~ 0.1%. This is a pretty good level to aim for for simple bacterial surface infections. Once you add the initial dose, you do not add any more unless you are changing out the water. Your aim is to maintain the same salt concentration at all time.

<The poster should have advised: Add salt, and maintain level for 1 week, then do 50% daily pwc x2 at the end of the week to remove the salt.>

When you are doing pwc during the week of salt treatment, you would add salt to the change water to make the concentration the same as in the tank. <So if you have 1 teaspoon per gal in the tank, then your change water also should have 1 teaspoon per gal.>

For goldies, you can add the 0.1% salt (pre-dissolved in water) all at once. If you were to go higher, you would want to split the dose. <I normally only increase salt by 0.1% each day.>

More info here:
Salt Treatments: Chicken Soup for Your Fish by Myron Kebus

 

[jsoong]

Black in goldfish is a juvenile color, so it is common for the fish to lose the black as it ages. They don't get to their "adult" color until they are at least 2-3" big, so when buying smaller fish, you are taking a chance with the color.

Even moors, which tend to keeps the black the longest, will fade to something like a chocolate brown as it age, and some goes totally white. <A jet black full grown moor (5-6") is a rarity, and command a high price ... $250 at my lfs!>

 

[fis]

Thanks for all the information about the salt - very helpful!!

I didn't know that about their color!

 

[fis]

Hello again!

I finally got the melafix - I'm wondering the effects of taking out the carbon on the water quality? Do I absolutely have to take it out? Will it affect the effectiveness of the melafix if I don't? I'm really concerned about messing with the water parameters....

Thank you!

 

[Sssea]

Carbon is only needed to get medications out of the water. It won't affect your parameters if you remove it. It will take out the melafix as you dose it, so you definitely should take the carbon out as you use it.
Good luck!

 

[Sssea]

Also, keep in mind if the carbon is in your filter pad where your beneficial bacteria are growing, removing the pad may cause a mini cycle. If this I'd the case, try cutting open the media, removing the carbon and putting the media back in.

 

[fis]

Thank you - ok - I thought it helped with water quality...
I can separate the media from the carbon - I have a fluval u3 so I can take the carbon out of the little case thing (I'm sure that's clear -lol) and just put the media back in...
Thanks!

 

[fis]

I just don't want to mess up with water in any way! When I first started with this larger tank I had huge problems getting the water quality in order...

 

[Sssea]

Totally understandable. You seem like you're on the right track to helping your fish out!

 

[Rosenweiss]

fis, did you fix your filtration problem? =] You should be filtering for 60+ gallons. On my 29 I run two AC50's.

 

[fis]

Thanks Sssea - I hope so!!

Rosenweiss - not yet - frankly I can't afford to buy a second filter or a bigger filter right now. I'm doing water changes more frequently, and hopefully that will do until mid-July. It's a bit difficult with finances right now - I'm trying to do the best I can for him while still paying my bills...