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Old 07-12-2016, 08:23 PM   #1
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Goldfish problems!

Hi, I asked a question about my goldfish before and the only reply I got was to house my two fancies (fantail & oranda) in a bigger tank since they were in a 10gal. Now they're in a 27 gal and I feel like I made things worse. My oranda looks worse than my fantail. Also, I just put them in the 27 two days ago. I know that I should've cycled it first but I used the API quick start. I conditioned the water too. I checked the water and basically the ph is 8.0 while ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, are 0.

Symptoms of fantail ( had it for 2 months)
* inactive
* clamped fins
*red streaks
* seems like it's tail fin is frayed/ not natural
* black smudges ( I'm not sure about this one because my fantail came with a tiny section of his tail fin black)

Oranda (had it for a couple months, >5 I'd say)
* inactive
* clamped fins
* lost scales
* red streaks

I'm providing pictures just in case I missed some. I caught them in a plastic cup in order to get better pictures.

(these symptoms were present way before I housed them in a bigger place but they got worse imo) Please, I want to keep my fishes as long as possible, what do I do? I bought melafix in case but have not used it unless someone says I should.
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:23 AM   #2
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Hi, good on you for trying to do the right thing by your fish. Sadly I suspect the fish were under some stress already so the move has stressed them more than it normally would. The quick start bacteria would take several days to attach, let alone start doing much so unfortunately regular, small water changes to keep the water fresh with any hint of ammonia is the go. However moving to the larger tank is very much the right direction to go in and goldfish are pretty tough.


Can you use the filter media out of the 10gal to put into the larger tank filters and cycle the tank quicker? Or the gravel (rinsed off in old tank water).


I would only feed every three days, they will be fine and it cut down the waste.


Do you have any plants? If not, I'd try a tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:03 PM   #3
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I've been waiting for a reply and thank you soo much! I don't want my fish to run out of time before I get any help.

I can't put my 10 gal filter cartilage in the 27 right now because I moved my fantail back in it. I feel like my fantail has been worse than my oranda. However, I did put some of the gravel in the 27. I have 4 plants in there. An Asian water fern, amazon sword, anubias and some type of floating plant.

I suspect my fantail has a swim bladder problem so I moved him/her back to the 10 gal to watch it closely. I woke up this morning and my fantail was floating on its side, not upside down. I did a water change and fed it a pea, he seems a lot better but still lopsided with clamped fins. On the other hand, my oranda reacts to feeding time and swims sometimes but still not the condition I want it to be in (swimming actively like a normal goldfish). Do I just do the waiting for both my fishes while I make sure their water quality is good? Will they eventually become unstressed? I want my goldfish to make it to their adult years!
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:28 AM   #4
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Goldfish problems!

Was the fantail improvement after the water change or after the pea?

For the oranda I'd still cut back on feeding - they will be fine for a week or two on reduced feeding and it will help the tank stability. And just regular, small water changes to keep water fresh. At the moment I would skip the melafix for this one unless gets worse. Also skip the salt as planted tank.

Does your water conditioner detoxify ammonia?
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Old 07-15-2016, 01:20 PM   #5
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I felt like the fantail might've improved on the water change...however, this morning, I woke up and found it dead .

I'll try to help my oranda as much as possible. I have Jungle Start Right as my water conditioner but it does not detoxify ammonia. I actually need to buy another bottle of water conditioner since I did two consecutive water changes for my 27 gal. Should I get a water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia?
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:42 PM   #6
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Goldfish problems!

That is sad news

I would pick up seachem prime since it detoxifies just about everything.

I was also thinking of something like this below which may help. I've only used API stress coat. I've thought these can help when I've tried them, other threads I have seen suggest the fresh water itself is doing most of the work. My own conclusion is that worse case it does nothing (doesn't make fish worse) and best case is it may help similar to say a headache tablet.

http://www.seachem.com/stressguard.php
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:25 AM   #7
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Okay, thanks for the tips! I've got a few questions. When would it be best to add another fish? When ammonia/nitrite is down to 0? Is high pH bad for the oranda?

I did a water test today and here are my results:
pH- 8.0
Ammonia - .25 or .50
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 10 or 20

where does my tank stand at now?
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Old 07-16-2016, 06:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeSadie View Post
Okay, thanks for the tips! I've got a few questions. When would it be best to add another fish? When ammonia/nitrite is down to 0? Is high pH bad for the oranda?

I did a water test today and here are my results:
pH- 8.0
Ammonia - .25 or .50
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- 10 or 20

where does my tank stand at now?
IMO I would leave adding fish until the tank is cycled and this fish is completely looking good. At a guess I would say 6 weeks. I know that is a long time but you could check out stores meanwhile. In addition I've seen single fancy goldfish get too large for 3 foot tanks so adding another fish at the moment might cause a tank crash (I'm actually wondering if there are other smaller fish like white cloud minnows that would be a better size - so you could also ask around as may suit on that as well).


Generally (again this is imo) I think that if the fish preferred ph range is close than the fish should be fine. So the ph of 8 doesn't ring any alarm bells for me. Additionally tank ph tends to decrease slightly over time so a ph of 8 may drop a little in the next month as bacterial activity picks up. Ammonia is more toxic at higher ph / higher temperature so regular water changes will also help.


Last one to check out is food. I do find a quality, species-specific food expensive but well worth it nowdays.
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:04 AM   #9
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If I have to wait to prevent my fishes from dying, then I will. I'll try to do some research as well with what fishes can go with goldfish and such. I've got pellet food and I pre-soak it before feeding my fish to make sure it sinks. I also try to feed peas once a week, usually the same day as water change, in order to prevent swim bladder disease. Of course this was my routine when it was in my 10 gal but I'll go back to it once everything seems better in the 27.

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it. I hope to keep my oranda for years. 
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