Guppies are wiggling?

[epicfish]

Hey everyone,

My guppies have been dying (in the past month or so). What happens is that they get "lazy", and sit at the bottom on top of my substrate.

A lot of the times, they wiggle their bodies in one spot, and most have red gills. I've tested my ammonia and nitrite levels, and both are at or almost 0ppm.

I'm thinking it might be livebearer/molly disease, but I'm not sure.

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA! Do your guppies have any other physical signs at all? It sounds a great deal like septcemia. Do you test with test strips or liquid test kits?

If you answer the following questions to the best of your ability, perhaps someone will be able to provide you with an answer.


1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

[epicfish]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
Guppies (guppies, platys, and cardinal tetras in the tank). The guppies kind of get lazy for a while, and then they rest on the substrate and wriggle around for a bit. Their gills are a little red and they're breathing a little bit heavier. Then a few hours later, I find them dead.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
Test kit values come from an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid Master test kit. (A little old)
Ammonia: 0.5-1ppm
Nitrites: more than 0ppm, less than 0.25ppm
Nitrates: 8ppm
Temperature: 78-80.
pH: 6.8 to 7.4, depending on CO2 production.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
10 gallons, it's been setup for about 2 months

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
AquaClear 10 filter

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
5 full-grown guppies
Many guppy fry
3 full-grown cardinal tetras
2 juvenile platys
Snails

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
Last Sunday, weekly, 40% WCs

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
Most of the fish I've had for 2 months, the tetras went in about 3 weeks ago. Floating bag for 15 minutes to acclimate them.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
Been replating the tank here and there. I've always used Prime dechlorinator, no new medications. Regular dosing with KNO3, KPO4, and micros (Plantex CSM+B) for plant nutrition. DIY CO2 injection.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
Flake foods, once every two weeks, I give them frozen brine shrimp or frozen blood worms.

Thank you for all your help!

[pobdave]

Id hesitate a gues at some form of osmotic shock due to the tank size, number of inhabitants and the amount of ''doctoring'' with products.

Are the guppies affect the female ones that have given birth?
Whats the ratio of males to female?

[plecoperson]

Are the guppies affect the female ones that have given birth?

I'm watching this thread because two of the female native livebearers I have (Heterandria formosa) have gotten ill in a very similar way. What happens to livebearers (guppies, mollies, HF or otherwise) that have given birth? I used to see this when I worked in petshops, and always wondered.

[pobdave]

In my experience (im not vet qualified though!)

If the females continue to be sexually harrassed by the males whilst pregnant they sometimes give birth and sometimes die at the moment of birth.I suppose the birthing process causes a significant amount of stress which will leave the female more susceptable to illness.

In this instance, my first thoughts would be are there more males than females and how long since did they give birth and are the males still harrassing them?In the past I have had to remove the female to ''recover'' after giving birth.Mainly found this more nescessary with mollies though.

When I first started out I fell for the old ''If the fry are ok then surely they would be the first victims if the params went haywire''.That is not the case when stress is accounted for.

I have lost many fish through trying to move them whilst pregnant also-often finding them in contorted positions as if the birth went wrong at the last minute.

I personally would remove the fry because afterv all-they arev guppies and thats a lot of hormones in a small area!

Just my thoughts.

[Zagz]

Your ammonia is too high, you should up your water changes to keep your ammonia down to 0ppm. Can't help you with the dosing as I am just starting with dosing, I wouldn't imagine that your dosing is affecting the fish but I may be wrong. Do you have any aeration in the tank? The tank has a fairly high bioload so keeping up on water changes will help.

[Devilishturtles]

Also ask your LFS for a candid answer on how long their guppies live in their tanks. IME, guppies are pretty, but not hardy at all. Product of gross mistreatment and overbreeding, not on the home aquarist's part, but of the wholesalers).

What is the gender of the guppies that are dying? Agree with Zagz, sounds like you need to keep on on water changes more often or reduce your bioload a little. Try feeding every other day instead of daily, or feed daily but in less amounts.

HTH

[epicfish]

The guppies afflicted are both males and females. The ratio of males:females is maybe 3:2.

I think I'll try WCs maybe twice a week and see what happens. Not to sound cruel, but if more fish die, the bioload will go down, but I'm doing my best to keep them all alive and happy. In the meantime, I'm going to do WCs every other day until the ammonia drops to 0ppm.

Any other suggestions? Thanks for all your help!

[pobdave]

How are they doing??

[Devilishturtles]

epic, try googling 'shimmy' (add the word fish in there somewhere, else you get results for the dance shimmy) and see if that is what you have. Adding aquarium salt works in that case. Quick cure may help too.

[epicfish]

Sorry for the lack of updates.

Two more passed today. All values were normal. 0ppm of ammonia, nitrites.

Both were female. One looked like she had dropsy, with reddened gills and a red "bruise" (internal bleeding I think) on the side of her head. The other died during the night. It looked fine when I went to bed. When I woke up, it was dead.

Grrrrrrrr. What's happening??



Devilishturtles: I will get a better test kit and try to check on the causes of shimmy one by one.

Thanks.