Guppy woes continue

[Matt68005]

So i thought i had beaten a strange disease a long time ago. Well, in fact, i did. I had to move to an apartment, then our small house now, so i got rid of most of my fish supplies. But, being the kind hearted person i am, I kept the guppy fry after they seemed o.k. Now, 6 months later, those fry are mostly grown up, but once again, i am having problems. There is no bloat this time, which is good. Can cure the bloat thing. Now they just have the emanciapated bellies again. Im kicking myself. I should have just destroyed the 50 or so fry and completely gotten rid of everything. My guppies are in a bare bottom ten gallon with a cycled spoonge filter and a cheap preset heater that stays around 77ish.
At this stage in my hobby, i am just experimenting with diffrent things and trying to learn new things, especially (or almost exclusively) about diseases, because ever since i got out of the "noob" phase years ago, ive had nothing but rotten luck.
Their cadual tails are clamped and they are emanciapted "skinny" in the belly with a mortality here and there. Not all are affected but only one here and there. Ive thrown every med at them thinking its a parasite like HOITH or fulkes. Ive used:
Rid ick = Formalin +MG
Acriflavine + MG
Praziquentel
Metronidazole in food and in water, pure powder
Clout
Even a dewormer before when they were bloated

Now im starting to agree with junebug that it is in fact fish TB. Just confused because i dont see any open wounds, ever. And a few days ago i even stuck my hand in the water with cuts on my finger, because i didnt think until i observed them today that it was fish TB. But now.....i mean if it was a parsite, the darn thing would be dead by now! Any kind of parsite!
I help alot of people here to the best of my ability, please someone help me!
Edit:
They no longer have stringy feces. Have not since i used the acriflavin/MG a long time ago.
That leads me to believe that i actually had 2 seperate diseases going on awhile back. One, a parasite, and one, fish TB. Now they are just emanciapted and clamped, but otherwise eating and acting fine.

 

[Matt68005]

Nevermind, its not Fish TB. Turns out its columnaris, which, in the 82 degrees of my non-airconditioned back room is gonna be hard to beat. Luckily i caught it early enough and got terramycin and M. Blue and salt on hand. We shall see!

 

[Delapool]

Sad news

Any improvement? Sometimes I think some fish are just not to be in my tank.

 

[coralbandit]

Iwas going to say columnaris.
I went through the same thing with my swordtails years ago.
The temp will be an issue but you can still kill it.
Kannamyacin and Nitrofurazone.
Fish Columnaris | Fungus & Saprolegnia | Treatment & Prevention


This is the link that opened my eyes.
I killed the columnaris with Potassium Permaganate right in the tank.
For me there was no fuzz,just sunken bellies,arched back and death within 24 hours.
I have pp if you are interested and can't find any.
Good luck as I believe columnaris is the "fish flu" of the decade possibly the century(but there is hope).
I have read the link 10+ times and still read it when I am wondering.

 

[Matt68005]

Oh, sorry i posted on a diffrent thread and didnt read this one yet. Yeah, it was columnasis, tho mine had the typical arched back and "fuzz" on their dorsal and ventral areas.
The terramycin and methylene is all i had on hand, but it worked just fine.
Gonna read that link now, homefully its not something ive already read because ive read alot of stuff about those three deadly fish bacteria.
Yeah delapool, i cured it straight away with my meds man, even tho the temp in that room has been pretty hot lately.
Took about 7 days of antibiotic feed 3x a day, tons of aquarium salt and methylene, plus daily 50% PWC but its cured now.
I pulled out a couple older females because they were not winning the battle fast enough, they might have survived, but with columnaris and so many guppies in a little ten gallong tank its best to pull out the weakest ones so the bacteria has nowhere to live.
People that say they use no antibiotics or meds, ovbiously kill alot of guppies. Its pretty easy to do, spontaneous most of the time.

 

[coralbandit]

Hey Matt(and Dela) here are couple good reads on columnaris.
Most don't get past the skepitical aquarist link!
http://www.myaquariumclub.com/columnaris-and-what-i-have-learned...-1689.html
^tells of the 4 different strains^

Veterinary Research | Full text | Columnaris disease in fish: a review with emphasis on bacterium-host interactions
^medical grade read even a dummy like me can pull pieces from^

I mis spoke about the internal being #4 but I don't think the # much matters since most think it can't be columnaris if it isn't fuzzy!


The vet link mentioned major heart issues with the internal strains(tachycardia?)


Foscarini described that the pathological changes to the gill structure caused by columnaris disease go hand in hand with cardiac alterations [33]. The first day after infection, bradycardia was noticed with the formation of hyperplastic gill lesions. Degenerative processes of the lamellae in the following days resulted in a compensatory tachycardia. This research suggests that the interaction between the impaired gill vascular blood circulation and the cardiac changes could result in the death of the fish [33].

 

[Delapool]

Thanks for the links. Still to read the second one.

We had speculated on dropping the ph where the fish were looking a lost cause. (From the first link) this was testing the idea that the bacteria prefer a higher ph. This was just theoretical for countries without access to U.S. meds. I think since then I've seen two threads where it was in low ph so have kind of given up on that idea. Unless maybe it was some other sort of bacteria, we were pretty certain it was bacterial but that was as far as it got.

I wonder if co2 injection discourages the bacteria when it drops ph below 7 or so?

 

[Matt68005]

Heck my water is very hard and ph 8.4. Maybe it does thrive in hard mineral rich water.