Having some nitrate problems

[Eggheadfish]

Hi guys,
I'm having a bit of an issue with my nitrate levels in my 55 gallon.
Stock: 2 silver dollars, one hi fin lyretail, one black phantom tetra, seven gold pristella tetras, and 21 assorted cories plus 6 fry.
I noticed one of the smaller cories developing some fungus and just generally not behaving normally so I quarantined him. Another seemed to be following the same path so I tested the water. Nitrates were in the 80ppm range.
Normally I suck up excess food and waste with a baster 4 times per week and do a 50% water change. Ive reduced feeding and done two 40% water changes this week in addition to normal maintenance and I'm still testing at around 40ppm.
Feeding normally consists of a small pinch of flakes for the tetras and swordtail (or bloodworms/tubifex/brine shrimp), some sinking shrimp pellets for the cories, and algae wafers for the silver dollars. The fry are in a breeder trap and getting first bites a few times a day and I suck up the leftover food before each new feeding.
I tested my tap water and it measured 0ppm.
I skipped feeding for today and did another PWC and will measure again later tonight or tomorrow.
I know I have a lot of stock, but I do my best to make sure I'm covering the bases and I can't seem to drive the nitrates down. I'm not sure if I need to do more small PWC during the week or what.
Since the cories had simple body fungus and improved in quarantine, I'm guessing they're just more susceptible to the funk on the bottom, but like I said I remove uneaten food, and I have sand which I turn when I clean the tank. I also have some water lettuce and java moss in the tank (I can't add any other plants)
If anyone has any additional suggestions I would very much appreciate it.

 

[philipraposo198]

You need to do larger WC, aim for 50%-60% every other day until it gets down to 5ppm or so.

Assuming your at 50ppm now. Todays 50% bring you to 25. 2 days of waste shouldn't be more than a few ppm. Next WC brings you to 15ppm give or take. Third one to 7-10 and 4th should get you around 5ppm.

This will be over 8-9 days.

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[philipraposo198]

Feed every other day for the time being till you get things in check.

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[Eggheadfish]

Thanks. My plan was to continue the PWC until the levels go down but I wanted to make sure I covered everything and that there wasn't anything else I was missing. Much appreciated!

 

[BBradbury]

Water Conditions

Hello Egg...

Large, frequent water changes are the most important. Set up a routine for removing and replacing half the tank water twice weekly and stick to it. This will steady the water chemistry by removing dissolved wastes.

Fish can go a couple of weeks without food. You're wise to reduce it. A little every couple of days until the water improves is plenty.

The sand is likely the problem. Standard pea-sized gravel is the most commonly used bottom material, because it allows water to freely move through it and is easily vacuumed to clean out uneaten food. The problem with sand is it allows very little water circulation and with no circulation, there's no oxygen, so toxic pockets develop.

Your post reads like you're doing everything you can to improve the water quality. Adding some floating plants would lower the nitrates. Hornwort is a good one. Add them if at all possible. However, nitrates at 40 ppm isn't bad.

Above all, keep up an aggressive water change routine.

B

 

[Delapool]

Just in case useful. If you have canister filters, I find doing a filter clean will also help reduce nitrates.

 

[Fresh2o]

Have the increased WCs helped yet or is it too soon to tell?
Yes, those SDs really limit your plant options. If you find the water lettuce reproducing at a decent rate then that should help reduce the nutrients/nitrates. That stuff is like duckweed in my tank.
What filters are you running in this tank? This is a 55g, correct? As mentioned above, filter maintenance should help as well.


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[Eggheadfish]

My understanding was that waste mostly sat on top of the sand. The cories churn it up pretty well, but like I said I also turn the sand when I clean the tank to reduce the chance of pockets developing and sitting there. I'll look into getting MTS to help turnover when I can.
The water changes are helping, but I'm not sure why the nitrates are still climbing so fast. I'll need to test again today. I skipped feeding yesterday. Sounds like going forward I'll need to do multiple PWC per week instead of one, but I didn't think my stocking/feeding was so excessive that they would rise that fast (80+ in four days after WC). The only other thing I could think of is that nitrates have been consistently high for some time now, I don't always test because this tank has been up and running for two years with me, and ten years prior and all stock was in good health with no issues, same regimen. The little cory is what tipped me off.
I have two Marineland biowheels on the tank. Once per week I rinse the two filter pads from one filter and alternate. They aren't totally saturated with gunk when I'm doing this so I thought it would be sufficient. If you think I should be doing both every week or more frequently please let me know.
I'm limited for plants but the water lettuce has been doing okay and there's a fair amount of it which is also why the nitrate climb was confusing - although I'm not sure what the consumption rate is.
Just another note - my tank is pretty bare to leave a lot of swimming space for the big guys, so there's not really a chance for detritus to accumulate anywhere that I can't clean. I have one lava rock that traps some food but I also blow that out with the baster once or twice a week.
Edit - I did another small PWC yesterday and will test when I get home and let you guys know if it's still trending down.

 

[Caliban07]

High egg, from everything that has been mentioned it sounds like an overstocking and overfeeding problem to me. That is a lot of Cory's in there. I know that when I had Cory's I would tend to put a bit extra food in 'just in case' the other fish were eating it before they could get to it. I know you are doing very well to remove this food but it is inevitable that you miss some.

If this feeding is daily then it definitely sounds like too much food is going in. Algae wafers are a nightmare for raising nitrates and more often than not, all the fish peck at them before the intended target even notices them. The food you add definitely sounds like it could be fed every other day. Remember also that the more fish eat the more they poop and the more poop is broken down the more nitrate you will have.

Fry also contribute to nitrates and many believe that high levels of nitrates can contribute to poor growth. Just feed every other day and do things as you were. See where your nitrates are then. That why you can start to ph pin point the actual cause.


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[Fresh2o]

You are correct with the sand/waste thing. Sounds like you are doing everything right.
How big are the silver dollars? They are 11 years old, correct? Sounds like they may be producing more waste than you realize.


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[mikem691]

You are correct with the sand/waste thing. Sounds like you are doing everything right.
How big are the silver dollars? They are 11 years old, correct? Sounds like they may be producing more waste than you realize.


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I agree with this. How big are the sd 's now. It may be time to treat then like large sa/can cichlids and give them a 55 to them selves. I have a large hybrid in a 55 by him self and requires 60to70% change every 5 days.

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[Eggheadfish]

They're 8-9" each I believe. I don't have an option to give them the tank alone at the moment unless I reshuffle all of my stock in other tanks and I don't really have a favorable footprint in any that I would put the cories into.
The six fry, plus the other 50ish I have in my fry tank and nine bronze adults will all be rehomed once the fry are big enough to be shipped - I have three people waiting on some but I just have to leave it as is for now. I want to reduce the overall number of cories but increase species shoal size it's just taking time.
As for the algae wafers, yes they are messy, but I feed all the other fish first and drop in one wafer at a time for the SDs to snag as they fall, otherwise sometimes they drop into places they can't get at and I have to take them out. I would rather the cories get something with protein than pick at those.
I don't feed every fish every day and I mix up what they get. I really didn't think I was over feeding but I'm going to cut back regardless until I get a better hold on the nitrates.

 

[Eggheadfish]

Trying to link the post with a picture:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3110700
Edit: the plastic plants aren't in there at the moment I took them out for cleaning and just haven't put them back in for over a week now. This was also pre-java moss and water lettuce

 

[mikem691]

I think your only option is going to be upping your water changes. I would think about 70% every 4 days or twice a week. I would get the trates down to at least 20. Then test daily till it hits 40 and that would be how many days between at least a 50% change. Is there any chance there is a dead fish rotting some where in the tank?

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[Eggheadfish]

I check my tanks up and down and count my fish every day, definitely no dead fish in there.
So to recap: tested at 80ppm, did a WC, tested at 40ppm yesterday and did not feed the fish at all.
Came home today, tested at over 80ppm. So I went up 40ppm in a day without doing anything. Didn't believe it. Rinsed out the tube a million times, read the test kit instructions another fourteen times, washed my hands three times, tested again with the same result. Did another WC, waited fifteen minutes and tested again. I'm now at 40ppm again.
So:
1) I'm colorblind and will never be a pilot (not likely)
2) my test kit is bad (not likely)
3) I have no idea what the word overstocked means (I refuse to believe that)
I'm going to do another WC after I've fed a very small amount. I'll keep doing so at least every 12 hrs and test. Once I get to ten or less I will test again at similar intervals to see how fast it's going up. I'm lost.

 

[mikem691]

WOW THATS CRAZY. I'm lost also. This might be stupid but do you have any test strips just to compare? I know the strips are terrible but yea I'm lost too.

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[Eggheadfish]

No I don't unfortunately.
The 40ppm result got darker the longer I left it on the table, so maybe my wait time on the first test was longer than I meant it to be, but I don't think so because I was eager to see what it was today. Maybe I'll pick up a backup test tomorrow.

 

[Delapool]

I've found once nitrates get up, it can be a lot of work over several weeks to bring them down (even with good filter cleans).

 

[Eggheadfish]

I think I'm just botching the tests because I tested again the next day at 40ppm again. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
Had to move my fry back into the tank because the 20 was getting ammonia and nitrite readings so I'll be doing a little extra maintenance anyway now. Also got the spare 30g rated sponge filter back in there just for some polishing.
Thanks for the input and help.

 

[Fresh2o]

You are properly shaking the Nitrate reagent bottles, correct?
Have you tested your tap water?


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