Having some serious issues....

[Miyavp]

So to start off I have a 37gal tank with three ryukins. Before about two months ago everything was great. First it started off with a nitrate spike. Which was due to my tap water spiking. So then I started doing water changes with water from my friends house. Which parameters test almost the same as my own had been with the exception of having chlorine. So I did my water changes with this water struggling to get my nitrates under control. Finally about three weeks ago I started getting things back to normal. Then a few days ago I notice my favorite goldfish al capone's gill covers have started curling. Due to bad water quality. Makes sence due to having been battling nitrates. Then I test the water today and my ph is 6.0....This makes no sence. I had already taken out 10gals for a water change then decided to test both waters to try and help correct whichever issue had been causing the gill curl. I only added back in 5gals because I dont want to cause ph shock. Could I do another 5gal water change tommorow?

 

[jlk]

Haven't you been doing big water changes atleast once or twice a week or did you reduce amount/frequency of your water changes? Are you still using someone else's water or did you switch back to your own?

 

[Miyavp]

Haven't you been doing big water changes atleast once or twice a week or did you reduce amount/frequency of your water changes? Are you still using someone else's water or did you switch back to your own?

I'm still doing the water changes but with my friends water. Which the parameters are identical to what my tap water was before the nitrate spike except it has chlorine. So I use seachem in it. I dont understand what could've caused this ph drop? I didnt wanna freak my fish out throwing in ten gallons of water with a 7.4ph. The water they're in had a ph of 6.0. Idk maybe I did the test wrong but I tested it three times.

 

[Miyavp]

I feel terrible...they're all stressed again darting around the tank. Can I add aquarium salt to make them less stressed?

 

[jlk]

Aq salt is not going to help with a low ph. If your using API test, 6 can mean 6 or a much lower number. It's the low limit of this test. It's possible some aspect of your friends water has changed such as the ph itself or the kh level. I would work on changing smaller amounts of water over the course of a day until you can get back into a more normal range. Your other option is to change all of the water and then drip acclimate back to the new water. However, if the kh of the water has dropped, you will likely see the ph crash again within a day or so. You could also consider mixing your tap with the other water but it brings the nitrate issue back again but at lesser amount than 40.

 

[Miyavp]

Aq salt is not going to help with a low ph. If your using API test, 6 can mean 6 or a much lower number. It's the low limit of this test. It's possible some aspect of your friends water has changed such as the ph itself or the kh level. I would work on changing smaller amounts of water over the course of a day until you can get back into a more normal range. Your other option is to change all of the water and then drip acclimate back to the new water. However, if the kh of the water has dropped, you will likely see the ph crash again within a day or so. You could also consider mixing your tap with the other water but it brings the nitrate issue back again but at lesser amount than 40.

Well I tested my friends water today and it was 7.2-7.4. So you want me to change less than five gals? Its the tank water that has the ph of 6.0 not my friends water that I'm putting in.

 

[jlk]

Either change 5-10g at time over the course of day until its back to normal or all of it and drip acclimate them back to the new water. If it crashes again in the next few days, your friends water has likely changed and this will need to be addressed.

 

[Miyavp]

Either change 5-10g at time over the course of day until its back to normal or all of it and drip acclimate them back to the new water. If it crashes again in the next few days, your friends water has likely changed and this will need to be addressed.

Hmmmm......I'm leaving on monday. If I used my water partially to buffer it and used seachem prime to reduce the nitrates would that work? I dont belive I have any biological filtration to break down the nitrates once I've used the seachem so would'nt they just come back? I dont want to stress my fish anymore is there anyway to avoid this? I'm sorry I dont exactly understand thr kh and ph thing. So the test today isnt accurate? The one that said the ph is 7.2 is thar just an overall? How would the kh effect the ph? Sorry I've got so many questions you must be tired of anwsering them all. I read baking soda will raise kh. Isnt it dangerous tho?

 

[Dreadz]

Hmmmm......I'm leaving on monday. If I used my water partially to buffer it and used seachem prime to reduce the nitrates would that work? I dont belive I have any biological filtration to break down the nitrates once I've used the seachem so would'nt they just come back? I dont want to stress my fish anymore is there anyway to avoid this? I'm sorry I dont exactly understand thr kh and ph thing. So the test today isnt accurate? The one that said the ph is 7.2 is thar just an overall? How would the kh effect the ph? Sorry I've got so many questions you must be tired of anwsering them all. I read baking soda will raise kh. Isnt it dangerous tho?

OK, in a nutshell KH (carbonate hardness) is an indicator of how much mineral content (specifically carbonates) is dissolved in your water. The higher the number the "harder" your water is and it is in essence this hardness that prevents dramatic pH swings in your water which you will often hear or see referred to as buffering, so in very simple terms the higher the KH of your water the more resistant it is to changes in pH.
In general water with pH higher than 7 (basic) tends to have a higher KH whereas water which has pH lower than 7 (acidic) has a lower KH. Over time the biological processes in your aquarium tend to reduce the KH of your tank water (or "soften" it) as the minerals dissolved in the water are used up, which can lead to pH crash because as the KH lowers so too does the water's buffering capacity (it's ability to resist pH change), which is possibly what has happened here.
Follow the advice you've been given above to restore your tanks pH to where you want it to be whilst minimising the stress on your fish and then going forward perform regular pwcs which not only remove toxic substances from your tank but also replace the minerals in the water which are what provide its buffering capacity and if you can get yourself a KH/GH test kit. Theyre not expensive and it will help you see whats going on in your water and whether or not you need to add minerals to it to prevent this happening again ( maintaining a KH of more than 3dKH should prevent a crash from happening again).
You could add bicarbonate of soda but its not the best route to go down by a long way. Add too much and your pH will shift too far too quickly and possibly result in pH shock.
Hope this helps

 

[Miyavp]

OK, in a nutshell KH (carbonate hardness) is an indicator of how much mineral content (specifically carbonates) is dissolved in your water. The higher the number the "harder" your water is and it is in essence this hardness that prevents dramatic pH swings in your water which you will often hear or see referred to as buffering, so in very simple terms the higher the KH of your water the more resistant it is to changes in pH.
In general water with pH higher than 7 (basic) tends to have a higher KH whereas water which has pH lower than 7 (acidic) has a lower KH. Over time the biological processes in your aquarium tend to reduce the KH of your tank water (or "soften" it) as the minerals dissolved in the water are used up, which can lead to pH crash because as the KH lowers so too does the water's buffering capacity (it's ability to resist pH change), which is possibly what has happened here.
Follow the advice you've been given above to restore your tanks pH to where you want it to be whilst minimising the stress on your fish and then going forward perform regular pwcs which not only remove toxic substances from your tank but also replace the minerals in the water which are what provide its buffering capacity and if you can get yourself a KH/GH test kit. Theyre not expensive and it will help you see whats going on in your water and whether or not you need to add minerals to it to prevent this happening again ( maintaining a KH of more than 3dKH should prevent a crash from happening again).
You could add bicarbonate of soda but its not the best route to go down by a long way. Add too much and your pH will shift too far too quickly and possibly result in pH shock.
Hope this helps

I've been up all night doing a few gallons at a time of water change. I'm worried the ph wont hold once I'm gone and it'll crash again. Is there anyway I can prevent this?

 

[Dreadz]

I've been up all night doing a few gallons at a time of water change. I'm worried the ph wont hold once I'm gone and it'll crash again. Is there anyway I can prevent this?

Without testing there's no way of knowing your water's hardness. For how long are you going away? I would imagine if you used a mix of both water from your and your friends supply you could at least be sure of filling your tank without overloading it with nitrates but adding in at least some KH which should hold it stable long enough for you to test it all properly when you come back.

 

[Miyavp]

Without testing there's no way of knowing your water's hardness. For how long are you going away? I would imagine if you used a mix of both water from your and your friends supply you could at least be sure of filling your tank without overloading it with nitrates but adding in at least some KH which should hold it stable long enough for you to test it all properly when you come back.

Leaving monday afternoon and I'll be back friday afternoon. I have a friend who agreed to come over and do the ph testing and nitrate testing for me. To make sure nothings crazy out of wack. How much of my water would I have to add? I'm about to test my nitrates again but yesterday they were at 40 and my tap water is at 40. I was able to raise the ph to 6.4-6.5 ish tho. Its stayed steady at that since last night. I'm wondering if my use of seachem prime to help keep the nitrate levels down in my tank caused the hydrogen ion thingys to eat the kh? Thats the best way I can describe it. I read some where about old tank syndrome where the offput (wrong word I know but I cant think of the right one at the moment) of the nitrogen cycle causes hydrogen ions which eventually eat away your kh causing a ph crash. I'm wondering if using seachem prime when I did water changes sped up my nitrogen cycle and caused that.

 

[jlk]

Prime does not affect ph or speed up cycling in any fashion. I suspect something changed with the water you were using. You can try adding some crushed coral, argonite, cr limestone or cr seashells in a mesh bag to your filter to help stabilize kh. But, you really need to checking ph daily to monitor ph. Too little & it will have minimal effect. Too much & it may jump too much. It's a bit of trial & error to figure out the correct amount. Start with 2-3 spoonsful.

 

[Miyavp]

Prime does not affect ph or speed up cycling in any fashion. I suspect something changed with the water you were using. You can try adding some crushed coral, argonite, cr limestone or cr seashells in a mesh bag to your filter to help stabilize kh. But, you really need to checking ph daily to monitor ph. Too little & it will have minimal effect. Too much & it may jump too much. It's a bit of trial & error to figure out the correct amount. Start with 2-3 spoonsful.

Of my tap water? Per gallon?

 

[Miyavp]

Prime does not affect ph or speed up cycling in any fashion. I suspect something changed with the water you were using. You can try adding some crushed coral, argonite, cr limestone or cr seashells in a mesh bag to your filter to help stabilize kh. But, you really need to checking ph daily to monitor ph. Too little & it will have minimal effect. Too much & it may jump too much. It's a bit of trial & error to figure out the correct amount. Start with 2-3 spoonsful.

Oh nvermind I feel silly. I dont have any of that though.... will it stabilize on its own?

 

[Miyavp]

So last checked I raised my ph to 7.0 boy do my fish look happier. Plus the nitrates are at 10ppms. I added two gals of my tap water with a drop of seachem prime in each gal. I'm gonna change out a few more gallons tommorow before I leave. Do you think I'll need more of my tap water to keep it stable? So far its a 2/37 ratio which is pretty low. My test strips have a kh reading on them so I tried them not accurate I know but my water and my friends water both measured around 80-120ppms as my tank water measured around 40-60ppms. Just to clearify all of these other measurements were taken with an api freshwater master test kit not strips.

 

[Miyavp]

So my ph has stayed at a stable 7.4-7.6 the entire time I've been gone