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Old 06-26-2003, 12:13 PM   #1
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Help! c. moorii has red/swollen/stringy fin joint!

I posted this on another site, but haven't had any responses of note.. I'll try here. (please excuse me if it's not "proper" to post the same question on multiple online forums)

My original post was:
New 125g tank, salinity 21%, NH3/N02 at 0ppm, N03 at 10ppm. pH is 8.2.. substrate is arragonite, rocks are tufa/lava/slate.

Fish in concern is a 5" male c.moorii - there are two males and 2 females (both males the same size, both females smaller, but same size..) no visible agrression amoung them to note. Entire population of the tank was added at once approx. 4 weeks ago. One of the c.moorii - his left pectoral fin seems injured - not like injured from being attacked -it's like the joint is red and swollen. the fish is active, eats like a pig and moves around, but each day he seems less able to move that one fin.

...

It's been 2 weeks since I noticed this ailment. It has slowly gotten worse. Tank conditions are the same, no other fishes showing any signs of anything. This fish is still active and loves to eat. Sometimes he swims with this fin tight up against his body as if he can't move it.. Sometimes it does flap around like he can move it. I've put some pictures here, the best my old digi-cam could take up close. Within the last 3 or 4 days, it's like a red-stringy thing is coming out of the swollen area, approx. 1/8" long. - reminds me of when (prepare to get grosed out) I got a root-canal, was awake for it, and they pulled the stringy nerve out of my tooth) Looks like a vein. Can anybody help? I've been treating the tank with Melafix, but that doesn't seem to be doing anything..

Below are the best pix I could get.. cropped and brightness/contrast boosted to try to illustrate.. none quite do this poor thing justice..

Please - any help, suggestions, medications, ANSWERS!? Is it a parasite? Wouldn't that be spreading? Again - the fish appears perfectly healthy in every respect, except this.
















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Old 06-26-2003, 02:35 PM   #2
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It looks and sounds like a bacterial infedtion to me, perhaps there was some aggression in the tank he came from and was injured or a little infighting when your not around to notice it. At any rate, I would treat with an antibiotic, possibly maracyn or maracyn 2, or both. If you use these or a combo, it should be done in a seperate tank, so as not to negatively effect the biological filter of the display tank. If this is not possible, I would probably try a weaker antibacterial agent like melafix.
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Old 06-26-2003, 02:57 PM   #3
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been using Melafix for 2 weeks.. the problem has gotten slightly worse. If it's in fact a bacterial infection, wouldn't it be wise to treat the entire population? I thought products like Marcyn weren't supposed to harm biological filters?
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Old 06-26-2003, 03:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
been using Melafix for 2 weeks.. the problem has gotten slightly worse.
In that case it is time to start with something stronger. In addition you might look into some antibacterial food, this will have a greater impact on the infection than treating just the water.

Quote:
If it's in fact a bacterial infection, wouldn't it be wise to treat the entire population?
Most bacterial infections are secondary, which means there has to be something else going on with the fish (like injury or stress) for the infection to take hold, and are therefore not contagious.

Quote:
I thought products like Marcyn weren't supposed to harm biological filters?
Any antibacterial agent has the ability to kill or depress the biological filter, antibiotics do not discriminate about which bacteria they kill. To be honest I've not had any problems with maracyn killing off the bacterial filter and have heard very few stories about it either, but it is always better to treat a fish in a quarantine tank
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Old 06-26-2003, 04:03 PM   #5
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but it is always better to treat a fish in a quarantine tank
I would agree with that. I have a 2G (yes, two) tank I could setup as a hospital, I just hesitate, only because this population of fish has only been together in this tank for a couple weeks, I think terratories are still forming and I'd hesitate to remove him (or try to, he's fast and feisty and there are lots of rocks) .. Then again, he is the biggest fish in the tank.. would a 2G tank be sufficient as a hospital for a 5" fish? I'd have to do daily 100% water changes (with water from the main tank?) as I don't have an established hospital setup and waiting.. I just don't want to aggrevate the situation by stressing him out.
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Old 06-26-2003, 04:11 PM   #6
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would a 2G tank be sufficient as a hospital for a 5" fish?
IMO, no that tank isn't big enough. It would require a min of a 10g. I undestand having no other option, we've been there , just make certain if you treat the main aquarium that you keep a very close eye on the ammonia and nitrite and be ready for some emergency water changes.
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Old 06-27-2003, 09:04 AM   #7
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of course.. I'll probably go pick up a 10 or 20G tank just to put in the cabinet under the show tank as a permenant hospital.. a tank alone is pretty inexpensive..
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Old 07-02-2003, 06:00 PM   #8
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Hiya mound.

Came across your post today and had some thoughts. That "nerve" you noticed sounds an awful lot like a parasite to me. Here's a description got anchor worms on Koi I came across on the net: "Anchor worms resemble a short piece of thread coming from beneath a single scale. Koi infected with anchor worms very often develop ulcer sores due to the damage caused by the worms as they bury into the flesh of the fish. "

If the antibiotics don't help, you may want to look into parasites as being the prob.
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Old 07-03-2003, 10:08 AM   #9
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thanks for the reply.. I had thought about that as well. the "string" appears to be gone.. the sore is still there. treating right now with Maracyn2 but if in fact it's a parasite, not sure if that will work
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