Help with internal parasites

[hartgirl]

So in general there is just something off about my fish. I have an 87 gallon aquarium, 0amm, 0 nitrite, 30 nitrate. Ph 7.4. The bala sharks look anemic, and two of my three gouramis have wasted away and died. The remaining one is eating well but has just developed two white spots( larger and more flat than ich), as well as some kind of lesion on his side in the middle. My german blue ram is looking faded in color, and 4 out of 6 red glass barbs (basically see through rosy barbs) have lost their color all together and turned a pinkish white rather than the brilliant red they started with.

I have read that internal parasites can affect a fish eating, yet not gaining weight, as well as coloring. Except of course the gourami has developed something else with this lesion now. Could this be a parasite? My other fish, barbs, rainbowfish, pictus catfish and spiny eels are ferocious little eaters, nice and plump. I've been thinking about using API General Cure for the last week, but I'm also wondering what the affect would be on the fish who aren't showing symptoms, as well as the spiny eels and pictus catfish who are scaleless....please help!



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[Caliban07]

White lesions of the side sound like columnaris. A gram negative flexibacter.
Other symptoms you have described also match such as fade colour and lethargy. Columnaris Also presents itself as a mouth fungus.

Try a gram negative antibiotic and dose the whole tank. Be sure to complete the course fully.

 

[hartgirl]

Nobody is feeling lethargic persay. They all move about the tank happily picking at rocks and stalk people as they walk by. Eat ferociously. I did, however, have a strain of what I think was mouth columnaris (didn't respond to any meds and killed 14 fish) It basically are away the faces of my red fin tetras...but it's in another tank in another room with completely separate equipment, and that has been over with more than a month now...would either med in api general cure treat that? I tried Maracyn Plus (had a gram negative and positive antibiotic) and it did no good in the other tank...


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[Caliban07]

Nobody is feeling lethargic persay. They all move about the tank happily picking at rocks and stalk people as they walk by. Eat ferociously. I did, however, have a strain of what I think was mouth columnaris (didn't respond to any meds and killed 14 fish) It basically are away the faces of my red fin tetras...but it's in another tank in another room with completely separate equipment, and that has been over with more than a month now...would either med in api general cure treat that? I tried Maracyn Plus (had a gram negative and positive antibiotic) and it did no good in the other tank...


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To be honest I can't really recommend a decent med for columnaris. Perhaps a google search might help. In the UK, the market for decent meds is very limited so I don't bother.

I believe general cure is good for internal parasites though as it has metronidazole in it and another one beginning with para something. Columnaris can be passed by fish coming in to contact with dead fish and is extremely contagious. It can be passed by nets etc but if you use sole equipment for each thank then that shouldn't be the problem.

 

[hartgirl]

The only symptom pointing to columnaris is the mark on the gourami. It hasn't broken the skin, could almost look like a bite, sort of half moon, or a scrape against a rock? No ragged fins, lethargy, which I understand are major symptoms...I did lose the two skinniest balas last night. It's odd that they both died at the same time, but idk what's going on. I've always been hesitant with meds and fish...they can sometimes do more harm. But I have some Maracyn Plus, Triple Sulfa, General Cure on hand in case I ever need it when a pet store is not around...just never use it (except the maracyn because it was clear that those fish in the other tank needed it) Anyways....today will do a large water change, maybe add some salt? And see how that goes....if anyone has more thoughts or advice id love to hear!


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[BillD]

A large (really large) water change is always a good way to start. If nothing else it will reduce the number/amount of pathogens and toxins in the water. I have had good luck with Jungle Anti parasite fizz tabs. It, is now I believe sold under the Tetra brand. It is seemingly fairly innocuous, and inexpensive. From what you report above, it is not conclusive that you have internal parasites.

 

[hartgirl]

It's not conclusive that I have anything ? the only thing that really points me to internal parasites is eating and not gaining weight. That being said the balas have always been shy eaters compared to the barbs....I always hand feed the eels, they'll come sit in my hand and eat worms. So while I do that I try to give more to the balas....my German Blue Ram is also getting skinny....and lacking color while she used to be just beautiful. The color changes have been very gradual over weeks...


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[hartgirl]

Also I don't mean to sound like a pain. Diagnosing fish ailments is possibly the worst thing I've ever had to do....there's very rarely a conclusive diagnosis unless you have Ick or something obvious....so frustrating...?


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[Caliban07]

Also I don't mean to sound like a pain. Diagnosing fish ailments is possibly the worst thing I've ever had to do....there's very rarely a conclusive diagnosis unless you have Ick or something obvious....so frustrating...?


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You're right. Diagnosing fish disease is a pain. I'm not saying it is columnaris but it is one of the few disease that produce lesions and it's a keyword whenever some one says lesions I think columnaris. I've had this before and it is a terrible disease although I believe I may have caused this myself. External parasites are definitely the easiest to cure. If it's anything else then it's hit and miss. Tbh i don't use meds anymore regardless. I believe a lot of fish problems may look like a disease but could be caused by any number of things. I would agree that if you believe you may have something that tank maintenance is essential. Change water regularly and keep the filters and gravel clean but a BIG water change isn't really necessary unless you have nitrogen problems. A series of smaller water changes over the course of a week may be better.

Oh and give them a high quality and varied diet. Peas for veg, frozen bloodworm for protein and a high quality dry food for example.

 

[hartgirl]

I agree. They eat new life spectrum with garlic pellets, high quality frozen blood worms once a week or so (plus the odd escaped bloodworm when my eels eat every other day) and I've tried peas to no avail. I think I need to change out the media in my filter too- the floss anyway. And I'll do a couple of smaller water changes this week and see how we do. And a little salt...it can't hurt at this point...


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[Caliban07]

I agree. They eat new life spectrum with garlic pellets, high quality frozen blood worms once a week or so (plus the odd escaped bloodworm when my eels eat every other day) and I've tried peas to no avail. I think I need to change out the media in my filter too- the floss anyway. And I'll do a couple of smaller water changes this week and see how we do. And a little salt...it can't hurt at this point...


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What fish do you have in the tank? Salt is your call. Some are for and some are against adding salt. I will only use it to treat external parasites in a 5 min salt dip but I'd have to be 100% sure it was an external parasite. Personally I wouldn't dose the tank with it.

I'm not saying don't but I wouldn't.

 

[Hobgob]

I know a lot of people say 30ppm is ok but I would shoot for the 20ppm range when it comes to a waterchange. Is there much aggression in your tank between your Bala and gouramis? Maybe that's just the issue.

Edit:

But if you have salt tolerant fish and plants I would dose it just to prevent any bacteria from attacking the possible cut. Also some parasite can't tolerate salt.

If you are pretty sure it's bacterial and you don't want meds the best options is to dose with salt and do 50% daily or every other day. The fact that you are removing so much water your are also removing any free floating bacteria and or parasite setting it back some phases making it more manageable on your fishes immune system so it can fight it off naturally maybe.
The clean water will also allow the wound to heal faster.

I have used the tetra fish tabs para guard I believe they are called. I believe someone mentioned about the jungle fish tabs. I believe these are the same thing. The package said jungle on it anyways. But I used it in my discus tank and experienced no losses! It has metro in it so its good for internals and I believe yoh can double dose it or dose it twice in a row.

Best of luck



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[hartgirl]

I have barbs, rainbowfish, one lonesome bala (his friends does yesterday), two spiny eels, pictus catfish, and a gourami. I've read up on everybody's salt tolerance. Pictus would be the most sensitive, but under small doses for about a week they should be ok. I dosed with salt on this tank once before with Ick maybe about a year ago and all was well. The only fish I did to have at that time were spiny eels. And I'm not adding a ton of salt if I do. Haven't decided just yet


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[Hobgob]

I just made an edit lol rather large


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[hartgirl]

I know a lot of people say 30ppm is ok but I would shoot for the 20ppm range when it comes to a waterchange. Is there much aggression in your tank between your Bala and gouramis? Maybe that's just the issue.


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Well I have one gourami and it's possible. The balas were very tiny and shy and don't seem to dart about like crazy and distress the gourami. That being said the gourami would pace the glass on one side a lot...with a water change I usually do 25% ...


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[Hobgob]

Well I have one gourami and it's possible. The balas were very tiny and shy and don't seem to dart about like crazy and distress the gourami. That being said the gourami would pace the glass on one side a lot...with a water change I usually do 25% ...


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Did you mention you had other fish die in this tank also or no? I'm not to knowlagable about gourami and balas


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[Hobgob]

How are spiny eel temperaments?


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[hartgirl]

Did you mention you had other fish die in this tank also or no? I'm not to knowlagable about gourami and balas


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Two gouramis and two balas. Both sets were eating, yet not gaining weight, then died. Took place over some time. (Why I thought of internal parasites)


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[hartgirl]

How are spiny eel temperaments?


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My spiny eels are amazing. They swim about all day, don't torment fish at all, each has their own little zones to hide in the rocks (they don't burrow in the sand at all which I think is weird). They're super social and swim to my hand to pig out on worms (frozen). Easily my favorite fish I've ever had!

Also they're a smaller species. Right now about 4 and 5 inches.


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[Hobgob]

They aren't active at night bothering the other fish by anychance? Also did these come from the same tank? Maybe take a visit and see how the other ones are.

How does the poop look?


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