how can you tell when a fish is dying of old age?

[sudz]

Well.. Yeah! Subject says it all.

I have a neon that is about... 2 and a half years old from the store, and he was a "jumbo" neon then. Which honestly probably means hes closer to 3 or 3.5 years old.

Hes Gotten very thing, and hes just... LONGER then the rest. His colors are "fading" and his body is becoming more transparent. His eyes seem a bit oversized now in comparison to his body. He does seem to be doing a bit more "head standing" lately, But has no swelling whatsoever (rules out bladder disease?)

No fin rot or fungas, and his fins are perfect (no bullying) Hes got a bit of a bent spine now.

Old age, or something i've never experienced before?

Attached photo (sorry for the grainyness, had to put it to "sports mode" to get a decently clear picture... Macro was coming out blurry.)

[dskidmore]

Have you tried the peas trick?

Nothing ever really dies of old age, old age just makes organisms more susceptible to disease. My grandmother died of pneumonia, not old age, but as she got older she came down with more and more minor diseases, until one of them got her.

According to one page I read (http://www.google.com/search?q=neon+...&start=10&sa=N) Neons can live up to 10 years.

[DepotFish]

You never really know how old the fish is if its full grown at the store. He could be older than 3. My female betta, at about 2.5 years had a slightly bent spine before she died and she got slow and didn't eat as much. I was sure it was old age though. For this tetra, you can't be sure, but its a good guess that he is probably old. Maybe try giving him some peas and watch to see that he has healthy poop- (my roommate always laughs at me for that one ) and no signs of internal paracites or anything.

[Devilishturtles]

dskidmore is right. Technically old age isn't a cause of death, but rather what happens is the body's immune system fails allowing an infection to creep in and infect. It looks like Neon Tetra Disease to me. Sadly, if that is the case, I would consider isolating the fish in a QT tank, or euthanizing... There is no cure for the disease.

Here is a link for you to browse:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm

[sudz]

DT, i looke dinto neon tetra disease... He has no "growths" and his "poo" i haven't seen. There's too many places to hide in my tank, so i can't watch him all the time.

In fact... I cant even see him now.

(gets kinda nervous)

I will try the peas thing. DO i have to "husk" them or anything?

[dskidmore]

boil a few peas in a cup of water in the microwave, shell them. some fish prefer the peas a bit squished to boot.

[sudz]

Oh yeah. I forgot i "experimented" with some food, i bought baby food (peas) and put it in a baggy then froze it (in thin sheets) i put some of that in there. The boesaumi is goin nuts over it, and the cherry barbs. Neons arent though... And i cant find the skinny "old" one... :|



*edit*

I found him... :-( Not swimming, breathing heavy, Sideways at the bottom of the tank at the back. Should i QT him? or just put em outta his misery?

[dskidmore]

I usually use frozen veggies for my fish, they have the least amount of processing/additives.

If you can find him, QT would definitely be a good idea no matter what the problem is. If you're determined to save him, I'd try an anti-biotic and an anti-parasitic along with frequent water changes. Usually though, once a fish starts having trouble staying upright, the cure rate drops dramatically. His struggle to stay upright will interfere with his appetite and breathing.

[Devilishturtles]

Originally Posted by sudz

DT, i looke dinto neon tetra disease... He has no "growths" and his "poo" i haven't seen. There's too many places to hide in my tank, so i can't watch him all the time.

The growths pop up once a secondary infection takes hold. I'm sorry, sudz. I'd euthanize if I were you. Looks to be too far progressed in my opinion.

Here is a link to possible euthanasia options for you.

http://www.fantasyreef.com/viewtopic.php?t=589

[sudz]

Thanks for the Link DT. I've always wondered if i was doing the right thing, but was afraid to ask incase i was preforming some taboo :|

I would typically freeze my fish, but now i'l do the "dunk it in freezing water" trick. I've never had to euthanize a "bigger" fish yet, ONly neon's and a beta, so a dixie cup was all it took.

Thanks. I'll euthanize him if he cannot get away from the gravel vac i'll need to get him out of the current spot.

:-( It is a sad day.

*edit*

The deed is done.

What are the odds that the disease (whatever he had) has already been spread? should i treat my whole tank? Treating this tank may be an issue because my clown loach, and my gourami (i heard to be careful with labrynth fish.)

Let me know...

DT, thanks again for that link. What i did: I have an OLD shaker that i've not used in years, so i put LOTS of ice in it, (and cold water) and mixed it until the metal of the shaker had frost on it. When i put the fish in, it "twitched" for about... 1 or 2 seconds, then sunk, belly up. Its now in the freezer, in a dixie cup. once it freezes fully, It'll get the one flush salute.

[dskidmore]

I usually QT and fight as long as I can. I hate euthanizing. No mater how painless it is, it's very final. I wouldn't want anyone euthanizing me!

I have however had to take the John Stuart Mill approach when the QT was occupied and I didn't want a sick fish to spread his disease to the main or quarantine tanks. I usually aim for the method most painless to myself at that point. It's rather too late for the fish, who is already suffering, and as long as you don't go with flushing, will soon stop suffering.

[Apocalypse_Gold]

Actually, things can die of old age as the telomeres (a series of base pair repeats on the end of chromosomes) shorten with each successive cell division, until it starts losing important genetic information. Then the body can no longer produce fully functional cells so it shuts down. Studies have shown that lifespan can be closely linked to initial telomere length and the lifetime rate of cell divisions. This is part of the reason that cloned animals have shorter lifespans (old chromosomes). But that is ridiculously technical and useless.

Once fish have reached the struggling-to-swim-right-and-not-eating stage, they are usually to far gone to be helped. (I like hyphenated adjectives)

It sucks to put down fish, but in the wild they would get eaten and their suffering would be over, so you are just trying to mimic nature. (That's what I tell myself anyway.)

[sudz]

I usualy euthanize almost-dead fish to avoid further spread of whatever the cause is. only ONCE have i felt that i euthanized a fish too early, and that was my african dwarf frog. (not really a fish) He went wildly suicidal, jumped out of the tank twice in a week (with maybe 2 square inches OPEN to air) and killed 2 fish (watched him try and eat one, Harlequin rasbora fry. (smaller than 1 inch)) I stupidly explained this to big al's, and of course they wanted nothing to do with it, even if i gave it to them for free. They told me that they just isolate randomly agressive fish (they call them "lemons"), and if they run out of space, they euthanize it... so thats what i did. And i felt guilty ever since! The frog haunts my dreams. Am i horrible?

:-S

[dskidmore]

If you're horrible, I am too. I have also killed a fish because he was a bully. It was either his death, or the death of many others. I really didn't know enough about his species at the time.

[sudz]

That does make me feel better. I mean its "just" a frog, but i still felt horrible - after the fact.

after the third fish he killed, and the eating of eggs left by neons, and the fact that no store would even take him in for free... i didn't know what to do. He was also slowly becoming "smaller" i figured he wasn't healthy, and tried to justify it by that as well.

Thank-you though, Makes me feel better i'm not the ONLY one!

[ikon]

Originally Posted by dskidmore

Have you tried the peas trick?

Nothing ever really dies of old age, old age just makes organisms more susceptible to disease. My grandmother died of pneumonia, not old age, but as she got older she came down with more and more minor diseases, until one of them got her.

According to one page I read (http://www.google.com/search?q=neon+...&start=10&sa=N) Neons can live up to 10 years.

wut is the pea trick ???????

[dskidmore]

Originally Posted by dskidmore

boil a few peas in a cup of water in the microwave, shell them. some fish prefer the peas a bit squished to boot.

This is a treatment for constipated fish. One of the possible causes of bloating and swimming troubles.

[GouramiFanatic]

Just wanted to say sorry for your loss. I've had my share of losses within the last week or so (thanks to Ich) including a pair of Neons. It definitely sucks!

[sudz]

I don't know why... same tank, ALMOST the same problem. I kinda noticed that one of my Corydora's were a little "small" and a bit lazy. I came home from school today to find it all white "bleached" laying dead on the bottom of the tank. Is this a spreaded case of neon tetra disease? What countermeasures should i take? I'm a bit worried, because it looked like some chunks were missing out of the cory's fins. Its possible (and likely) that some fish took a few pecks outta him after he died.

Help!

[dskidmore]

Certianly don't replace any of the fish that died for a month or two after the last death/symptom. You want to be sure this thing has run it's course.

Keep feeding all the fish the anti-parasitic food, and only that food. (Follow package directions.)

Get a QT running if you don't already have one. It's best if it cycles before it's needed.

If any fish starts to show symptoms, put him in QT immediately.