Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 02-09-2008, 02:55 PM   #1
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
I don't understand what's going on =/

I have a 33 gallon tank that has been running for years now with no problems until recently. Please check out my other thread http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ng-100257.html

Well that one silver dollar died. The rest of the fish were fine at that point.

A few days after the death of the silver dollar, I noticed all of my Rainbow fish became less active/playful. These guys would always swim around and play chase with each other. But now all of them are sitting in the corner 1/2" below the surface. They are not gasping for air but for some reason they are sitting all the way up top. They have not lost their color at all and still eat when I feed them...but go back in the corner up top after feeding. Yesterday one of the rainbows started to swim right up against the filter current and stayed like that since last night. Woke up today in the morning and he is still swimming up against the filter current. The other rainbows are still in the corner up top. When I first noticed this behavior 2 days ago, I did a 35% water change, which did not help. The next day I did another 35% water change and still no improvement.

I also noticed my 2 loaches are constantly flashing against the gravel. However, the 2 silver dollars I have left are doing fine, and the redtail shark I have is also doing fine. And so is my candy pleco.

I remember adding 2 plastic plants few days ago and I forgot to rinse them before putting them in. They were brand new still in plastic bags. Can there be some kind of residue on these fake plants?

I did all the water tests and everything except the pH level is good. The pH level is around 7.6. The temperature is 77-78 degrees.

Does this sound like there is something in the water or are they infected with something? I don't see any flukes, spots, worms on them, but what about the two loaches that keep flashing against the gravel? can it be from something in the water irritating them? by the way, when I do partial water changes I use StressCoat to remove chlorine and metals from the water.

I don't know what to do next. More water changes? or should I start using meds?

Thanks all.
__________________

__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 04:04 PM   #2
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
Update: I guess I should have checked on all the fish before posting. The candy pleco is not doing good at all. He is laying still in the plants and not moving. Usually when I get close to the aquarium he will hide right away. But i was looking at him from inches away and he did not even move a muscle, just blinked once. Grrrrrr I really don't know what to do. I have two 10 gal buckets. Should I fill them up and transfer all the sick fish to these buckets?
__________________

__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 04:35 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
marchmaxima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,209
Send a message via Skype™ to marchmaxima
If all that has changed in your tank was the introduction of two plastic plants, and then after that, your fish appear suddenly sick, the plastic might very be the issue.

That said, I am no expert and divert to others who might have a better idea.

I'd see nothing wrong in removing them, doing another PWC while you are working it out. If the fish improve it might have been something about the plastic.

Good luck.
__________________
marchmaxima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 06:56 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Zagz's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 17,108
Send a message via MSN to Zagz
The flashing causes me the concern. Do you see any spots of ich at all? If it were me, I'd add an extra bubbler or one if you don't have one and start raising the temps slowly to over 87F. I'd remove the plastic plants and rinse them well in dechlorinated water. I don't think that might be the cause mind you. I would do a pwc before raising the temps. It may be ich in the gills of the fish and hasn't shown up on the bodies yet. Ich is always present in a tank and stress in a fish can bring it on. Maybe the introduction of the plants stressed the fish somehow. Good luck and keep us posted on how they are doing.

Oh and your ph is fine unless it has been swinging up or down. Keep an eye on it and as long as it stays constant you are fine with it.
__________________
AA Community Rules | AA TOS

-----------
Site Administrator
Zagz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 08:06 PM   #5
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
Hey thanks for the reply. I did another PWC of 35% and the two loaches are flashing against gravel even more now. I don't see any white spots on their body. Their bodies are smooth and colorful. I'm thinking its either ich in the gills or something in the water it self is irritating them. Can these fish handle any amount of aquarium salt? I have the two loaches, 1 redtail shark, the 5 rainbows, 2 silver dollars and 1 candy pleco. Maybe add a little bit of salt and raise the temp. slowly to 87 degrees?

Thanks.
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 08:10 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Zagz's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 17,108
Send a message via MSN to Zagz
No salt with loaches! If need be raise the temps 1-2 degrees every 6 hours. The increase in heat will not be as stressful as the ich or even salt for that matter. Loaches seem to be prone to ich. Make sure to either add aeration or lower the water level as higher temps decrease available oxygen in the water.
__________________
AA Community Rules | AA TOS

-----------
Site Administrator
Zagz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 08:27 PM   #7
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
Ok. I will increase the flow of the air pump and lower the water level, and will start increasing the temp. of 2 degrees every 6 hours.

If the fish get worse with the temp. rising, do I lower it back to normal or leave it at what ever degree it gets to?
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 09:42 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Zagz's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 17,108
Send a message via MSN to Zagz
It depends on whether worse means more flashing or general health. The ich will get worse if that is what it is, from 82-86F
__________________
AA Community Rules | AA TOS

-----------
Site Administrator
Zagz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 10:03 PM   #9
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
I got the temperature up to 80 degrees right now. will turn it up a notch in a few hours. I think my candy pleco is about to give up =/ I can touch him with my hand and he wont move a muscle. he is kind laying on he's side up against the side of the aquarium. the only way I can tell he is still alive is that he kind of "blinks" or moves his eyeballs.

I'm still thinking its the ICH attacking the gills. How long should I treat them with the heat treatment? if they don't show any improvement by morning, should I start medicating them with RidIch+ ? and If I do end up medicating the tank, should I leave the temp. at 87 degrees or lower it to 77 degrees over time and then medicate the tank?
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 12:43 AM   #10
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
Well I had to go ahead and medicate.

The loaches started to dart around like crazy and flashing against everything and anything, non stop. One of the rainbows also darted right into the wall. Something was really driving these fish up the wall. I increased the air stone pump to the max and added RidIch+ half dose. Five minutes later one of the rainbows came down from the top and is now hanging in the lower portion of the aquarium. The loaches are still flashing, but definitely not as much. Does medication provide some sort of relief?

I hope I made the right decision. I just could not stand seeing them darting around like something is taking a bite out of them. I will keep an eye on them and see if the rest of the rainbows come down from the surface.

By the way the temperature has reached 82 degrees and I'll leave it at that until tomorrow.
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 12:39 PM   #11
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Zagz's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 17,108
Send a message via MSN to Zagz
I would continute to increase the temps to 87, you may need to up the speed at which you increase if they get worse. I don't use meds at all with ich, my fish have never faired well. Do not leave the temps at 82, ich increases it's cycle at that temp. You need it above 86, 87-88 is best. Watch the loaches the medication may be providing some relief or it may be harming their delicate systems. Once your temps are up I would add some active carbon to the filter to filter out the meds.
__________________
AA Community Rules | AA TOS

-----------
Site Administrator
Zagz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 02:42 PM   #12
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
UPDATE: Well the fish definitely got ICH. Today I took another look at the rainbows and they are COVERED with tiny white spots especially on their tails. One of the rainbows didn't make it =/

I did use ridich+ last night and most of the fish got an instant relief as they didn't flash against the gravel as much. I guess I was too late for the rainbow that died. So I guess the oxygen deprivation was caused by ich attacking the gills as I didn't see any white spots yesterday, but today they are covered with them. I raised the temp. up another notch today and will bring it up from 82 degrees to 84.

Thanks all.
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 10:06 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Zagz's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 17,108
Send a message via MSN to Zagz
You need to go faster with the heat. 2 degrees every 3-4 hours at least. You should be over 87 by now. The ich is increasing faster and faster at your current temps.
__________________
AA Community Rules | AA TOS

-----------
Site Administrator
Zagz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 10:27 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6
Im not an expert but to me my loaches and rainbows always did that if for some reason there was a PH spike. You have petty much changed i think your limit on water. And the Ich treatment is going to make the loaches act silly anyways from my experience anyways. I had one rainbow act as yours are doing and no matter what i did i lost him. His buddies ( i had four) never had an issue. Once he died they stopped hanging in the corner go figure. But when my loach started acting funny and my rainbows did to i checked the PH it was normal i kept mine at around 7.0 actually but anyways, i kept checking and about the time they started freaking i tested the water and it had spiked. To this day i swear that the water i used ( i lived in the city) they city was doing something out of the norm. cause thats the only thing i could figure. But i treated the PH level at the time of the spike and everyone settled down. Problem is once they get stressed to a certain point its hard to bring them back. Good luck though. and i hope other people give you the help you need.
__________________
iderbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 02:29 AM   #15
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagz View Post
You need to go faster with the heat. 2 degrees every 3-4 hours at least. You should be over 87 by now. The ich is increasing faster and faster at your current temps.
I'm trying. This heater picked the wrong time to act up. Before, when I had it set for 76 degrees it would always be 2 degrees above. Now that I have it set to 86, it is 2 degrees below, and has been for about 4 hours now :-|. And I just know if I set it to 88, it will probably climb higher and cook my fish.

The thermometer is actually showing 85 degrees now. Hopefully it climbs to 86-87 overnight and stays there.

I'll update tomorrow.

Thanks.
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 12:46 PM   #16
AA Team Emeritus
 
An t-iasg's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Criders Corners, PA
Posts: 9,889
You could add a second heater if you have one, or you could get a second one for backup. I have a few backup heaters just in case. Some were from tanks that I had torn down but I kept the heaters. I agree with Zagz - temps in the range of 82-86 degrees F will speed up the life cycle of the ich. They will reproduce faster. (On the other hand, temperatures in the 40s will make them reproduce very slowly.) Temperatures at 87-88 degrees will kill them at all their stages - in the gravel, on the fish, and free-floating in the water. The stage on the fish is the only stage we can see. It is recommended to keep the temperature up for two weeks after you see the last spot. This will continue to kill the ones you can't see in the water and any that are still in the cyst stage in the gravel, so it's important to have a heater that will be able to keep the temperature up.

I don't blame you for adding meds - I know it's hard to see your fish flashing, but the meds only work on the stage that is free-floating in the water. When the ich sticks to the fish or it's in the gravel, it encapsulates itself so that meds are ineffective. When they pop out of their "capsule" that they attach to the fish, and swim through the water, they are vulnerable to meds at that point. When they get to the gravel they encapsulate themselves again. So even though heat is effective at all stages, you still need that two-week window to make sure all the free-floating ones are gone and the cysts in the gravel are done hatching.
__________________







An t-iasg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 07:32 PM   #17
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
I lost the candy pleco today =/

The temp. is at 86 now, so I turned it up another notch. The rest of the fish are hanging in there. I fed them today just a little bit and it seems every one of them ate. Two of the rainbows are still covered with ich...the loaches are still flashing but one is flashing much less then the other.

I'm amazed my redtail shark is not affected by this outbreak. He just swims around minding his own business like nothing can touch him. I love that lil guy.

The silver dollars are doing really good too. Now I just need the rainbows and the loaches to fight this off and all will be good again.

Thanks everyone!!!
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:37 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Zagz's Avatar



POTM Champion
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 17,108
Send a message via MSN to Zagz
Glad to hear there is some improvement. And that the temps are getting where they need to be. I had a feeling it was ich in the gills. I've ben there. As Antiasg mentioned keep the heat up for at least 2 weeks after the last spot of ich is gone, and keep the extra aeration as well.
__________________
AA Community Rules | AA TOS

-----------
Site Administrator
Zagz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 10:27 PM   #19
i3k
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: California
Posts: 902
My heater definitely sucks. I have it turned up to 90 degrees for an hour now and the temp is still at 86. I found another heater, a really old one that doesn't have the degrees dial. I turned it on and it started to get hot within 2 min. I put it in the aquarium so hopefully it bumps it up to 87 degrees quicker.

I've seen one of my loaches swimming head down into the air stone and just hang there in the bubbles letting them hit his whole body...is he doing it because it gives him some sort of relief or because he is not getting enough oxygen?
__________________
i3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 11:34 PM   #20
AA Team Emeritus
 
An t-iasg's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Criders Corners, PA
Posts: 9,889
I'm glad you found another heater! Those temps should come up now! I don't know what the loach is doing (never had one) but if it does give him relief, that's fine, and it can't hurt IMO because it's moving water and oxygen over his gills, which is always a good thing.

I'm sorry about your pleco and I hope your shark hangs in there! I hope the rainbows pull through too. Hopefully this other heater will give you the burst of heat you need to fight this ich!
__________________

__________________







An t-iasg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tan

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I don't understand... jmcbubbles Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 17 01-20-2006 05:59 PM
I need some help to understand Zagz General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 4 08-30-2005 08:28 PM
If I understand this right... okpondlady Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 3 08-11-2005 11:01 PM
Help me understand ALK stusclan Saltwater Reef Aquaria 4 02-13-2005 01:48 PM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.