I think my fish may have fin rot.. help!!

[Donatron]

I just put in my betta into a 10 gallon tank last night. After a month of try to fishless water cycle it, I got impatient and just bought some Bio-Spira. I did a complete water change of the tank last night, added Bio-Safe (conditioner) and the Bio-Spira, then put my fish in.

I then left for the night and came back home about an hour ago and I saw a large portion of my fish's fin gone. I was thinking maybe fin rot, but the water is clean and the ends of the fin don't look to be any darker. I was thinking maybe it got torn off by the sponge filter, but the filter is so tiny and put on the weakest setting (the betta is capable of swimming against the current).

I'm at work right now, but when I get back, I think that I'm gonna put him back in his .5 gallon until i figure out what's wrong.

Anybody know what might be the problem? I took some pictures, but the quality isnt that great. Its hard taking pictures of fish.. It's the top end of the tail that is missing.

edit: If it is fin rot, I plan on getting Bettamax to treat. But on the directions of Bio Spira, it says to remove all medication when introducing the bacteria into the aquarium. Will I be able to add medication so soon after adding the Bio Spira?

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi Donatron and welcome to Aquarium Advice!

First of all, congrats for putting your betta in a 10 gallon tank and using Bio-Spira! Some bettas are more sensitive than others when it comes to changing their environment. He may have been stressed enough to fray his fins. One time I had a betta in a gallon QT. When I put him in the tank, he swam around very fast until he frayed some fins. My betta's fins were frayed and torn, but I saw no black edge that would signify fin rot. I didn't medicate him, and the fins grew back fine. It took awhile, but they grew back and he had no further episodes of this. Check your betta -- if he's the same way (showing no actual fin rot) then don't medicate and just do water tests to make sure your parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 20-40 ppm nitrates, and your betta should heal up nicely. Just a comment about meds -- it is best to treat in a QT tank. I've used BettaMax and it's good for bettas. It will stain the silicone in your tank. Do not use Melafix, and I would not recommend BettaFix either. The melaleuca-based meds are wonderful for other fish, but not for bettas. The betta's labyrinth organ seems to be adversely affected by the melaleuca.

You can use another water conditioner with Bio-Spira. I use Novaqua and Amquel. The key is not to add too much. Add only the amount on the bottle to initially treat tap water. Don't add any more. You don't want to bind the ammonia away from the Bio-Spira; you just want to treat the tap water. If you do get a small ammonia spike, just do water changes. With Bio-Spira, you may get one or two days of a slight ammonia or nitrite spike. When I used Bio-Spira, on day 2 I got an ammonia reading of .25, and on day 3 I got a nitrite reading of .25, (I did a small water change each day) and on day 4 the tank was 0-0-20.

You mention a sponge filter -- I have one too. I have a sponge filter in each of my betta tanks and they are run by the same airpump through a gang valve. Did you put the Bio-Spira right on the sponge? That's what I did when I used it.

Do you have a thermometer and a heater? Most bettas are very susceptable to temperature changes. For a 10 gallon tank, you should have a 50-watt heater and keep the temperature at 80 or 82 degrees. If you live in a warm climate, the heater may not run during the day but at night the temperature most likely drops. The heater will keep the temperature stable so as not to stress the betta.

Right now, I would not put him back in the small bowl. This may stress him more. I would keep him in the tank, and look for ways to keep his stress level down, so he can feel comfortable and begin to heal. Also, you've added Bio-Spira to this tank, and you'll waste it, and your money, if you remove the betta -- the Bio-Spira wil die without an ammonia source. Check the temperature, first of all. Then, what decorations are in the tank? He will feel more comfortable if he has something to hide in or rest on. Be careful of sharp decorations, or even plastic plants. Silk plants are best for a betta. I have a mix of silk and real plants in my tanks. I have some low-light plants, but I wouldn't consider my tanks "planted" tanks.

Speaking of light, bettas don't like bright light either. I have one 15-watt aquarium bulb hanging diagonally over both my tanks. Just make sure no bright room light is shining directly into the tank. If necessary, you could get one of those background pieces to put around the tank to block out some light. You could put it on the back or side. It probably would not look nice all around the tank, and you probably don't need to do that. I have a piece of tissue paper on the side of my one betta tank. That's so the one betta won't see his "brother" and get all fussy!

Looking at the pics (Is that the same betta? That's kind of like my betta too. Sometimes pictures show him as redder than he is.) I can see the edge of your betta's fin, and it looks like my betta's fin the one time when he frayed it -- it looks stringy but it doesn't look like fin rot has set in. Just keep an eye on your parameters, try to reduce the stress level, and your betta should be good as new!

 

[Donatron]

Thanks so much for the very informative response. I'm so used to forums where you get a series of flames and dumb responses before you get a good one. I'm glad to see that this forum is a rare exception.

-I couldn't find BettaMax anywhere, so I ended up buying Maracyn-Two. I haven't used it yet, though. I'm gonna wait it out like u said. But what are your thoughts on it? I found the recommendation for it here: http://www.mushi.petfish.net/finrot.html

-It's day two right now and my readings are similar to yours: 0.5 Ammonia, 0.25 Nitrites. So that's good.

-I bought NovAqua andAmquel just now, too. I've read a lot of good things about them, and nobody seems to carry Bio-Coat. I was going to buy just the NovAqua as a replacement for the Bio-Coat, but I saw the NovAqua/Amquel combo for only a few bucks more so I decided to make the switch.

-I actually just dumped the Bio-Spira into the tank, hehe...

-Yes, I do have a thermometer and 50W heater. It's also set at 80-82 degrees.

-I have a flourescent light in my tank. But I think i'll keep it off for a while so he can get better faster.

-I only have one plant, and it's silk.

-Also, he doesn't act like he's sick. I spotted a buble nest around the heater, so it appears he's happy. He's also active, which is also good.

-Here's a pic of the whole aquarium. as u can see, I need practice with taking pics of my fish.. lol

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi Donatron,
I get a little carried away sometimes but I love bettas and want them all to be happy and healthy!

I have used Maracyn-2 before and it's good for bettas. Watch out for the top of the pineapple -- is it going to catch on his fins?

The Bio-Spira will live on the gravel too. The good bacteria will colonize most of the surfaces in the tank -- decorations and gravel but the main area for them to live will be the sponge filter. Try to put just a little more Bio-Spira, like 1/4 teaspoon, on the sponge, and see if that helps your parameters faster. Is that the sponge filter on the right? What brand is it?

 

[Donatron]

The Pineapple is fine... There are no sharp edges at all.. No tight spots for the fins to get caught either. Although I took out the rock thingie and the plant. The rock's surface seemed kinda rough, and the plastic parts of the silk plant werre pretty sharp. I'm going to buy a couple new silk plants today to replace.

The filter is an Elite Mini from Hagen.

Day 3 measurements: 0.5/0/0.5 pH: 7.8 (I live in California)
Is it normal for the nitrites to hit 0 before the ammonia does?

Update on fish: It seems that he's gotten worse. A bit more of his tail seems to have been lost, and very tiny fraying can be seen on his bottom fin. His dorsal fin hasn't frayed, but there is a small hole. No signs of any darkness though.

Also, can algae be white? There was some white stringy stuff growing on the decor in my tank during the period i was trying to cycle it. It looks like cotton after uve stretched it out. I cleaned out the decor, but there is still some of that stuff floating around. Not sure what that is, but maybe it might be contributing.. It's not on the betta though, just in the tank. Possibly fungus?

Also, there was a white crust that built up on the heater. Possibly a sign of hard water? Although the water I used in the 10 gal is the same I used in the 0.5 gal. My betta didn't have any problems for the month that I had him in the 0.5 gal.

If I do need to medicate, can I do so without havin to QT? The package for the Maracyn-Two says that it doesn't disrupt the biological filter.

 

[An t-iasg]

That's good that you looked over the decorations and removed the ones that could have been a problem. Sometimes, silk plants come with plastic flowers, and I cut them off and use some sandpaper that can be used wet to smooth off the end of the plastic stem where I cut.

Is it normal for the nitrites to hit 0 before the ammonia does?

No, usually not. In a normal cycling process, the ammonia will spike (show a measurable value) and then fall to 0. After this happens, the nitrite will then spike and fall to 0. IMO, any spike over .25 ppm is dangerous for the fish and warrants a water change. Since you're showing both readings at once, it's doubly important to keep up with water changes. My guess is that the ammonia is on the way down, and the nitrite will show a small spike. I don't think the bacteria that eats the nitrite can live in a tank with ammonia; that's why the ammonia has to reach 0 before the nitrite peaks and then falls.

By adding the Bio-Spira, hopefully the ammonia and nitrite readings will fall to 0 soon, as they process the ammonia and nitrite. In the meantime, keep doing water changes. Don't disturb the gravel with too much vaccumming right now. You need the bacteria to settle in without being disturbed. That's why I also suggested that you put a little more Bio-Spira on the sponge filter. That will be a good, undisturbed environment for it.

I've seen the white stringy stuff before, usually in an uncycled QT tank. It may be in your tank now because you're not quite cycled yet. It should clear up as the good bacteria take over. In the meantime, you can use a turkey baster to remove it. It's hard to tell if it's a fungus or bacteria. Sometimes they look the same; bacterial infections are more common. If it attaches to your fish, you will probably need a med, like the Maracyn-2. I know the Maracyn-2 says it won't harm the biological filter, but I did some tests one time when I used it in my main tank, and I did get an ammonia spike. You are putting a med in the tank that kills bacteria. It doesn't care what bacteria it kills, and your good bacteria is fair game to the Maracyn-2, unfortunately. So yes, your best bet would be a QT. If you have lots of Bio-Spira left over, you could treat in the main tank. Just know that the med will most likely destroy your newly-grown bacteria, and you'll have to add more Bio-Spira to start over again. Also, since the betta is the only fish in the tank (right?), if you remove him (since he is the ammonia source for the bacteria in the main tank) you may still get an ammonia spike. I once fed my empty tank (just dropped in betta pellets) while my betta was in QT and I kept the ammonia level at 0 for a week. The decaying food (well, I didn't dump a ton in, lol) provided enough ammonia for the good bacteria to stay alive until the betta came back.

Do you know what your pH is? I often get white deposits on my glass hood. It can be a sign of hard water, but don't try to adjust your pH -- a stable pH is more important than a lower one. My tanks are around 7.2 or 7.4, but a pH of 7.8 is ok too. If you try adjusting it and lowering it, you often just stress the fish.

I know you said your betta was ok in the month that he was in the small bowl. That's about how long my bettas did ok in their bowls too. IME, honestly, the betta would not do well in there for long. It seems like things may not be working out right now, but don't be tempted to put him back in the bowl. This cycling process and new tank woes will pass, and you'll have a happy, healthy betta!

 

[Donatron]

Well I added two new silk plants... They're nice and smooth all over, so there shouldn't be a problem with them..

Also, I found some Tetracycline at the shop, too.. Would this be better than the Maracyn-2? I read some good things about it.

 

[An t-iasg]

Your betta will like the new plants -- new hiding and resting places!

From Mardel's website, Maracyn-1 is erythromycin and Maracyn-2 is minocycline. So the tetracycline is (as you know!) just another kind of antibiotic. If you already bought the Maracyn-2, and need a med, I would use that. I have had good results with it. On the Mardel packaging it suggests to use one of their other antibiotic if you don't get good results from the first one. That's what I would do -- just stick with the Maracyn-2 for now if you need it. These meds have expiration dates and there's no use letting them sit around if you don't need them right away. I do agree that you should keep one med on hand, though, so you already have the Maracyn-2. If you need the tetracycline later, and it looks like it will treat the disease that your fish has, then you can always get it.

 

[Donatron]

Update:

Well, after Day 4, I decided to QT him so I can medicate. I tried everything I could to reduce stressing him, but he just kept getting progressively worse.

It's Day3 on medication and his fins haven't rotted since I put him in. It appears like the fins are beginning to grow back, too.

Anyways, I'm gonna have to buy some more Bio Spira and recycle the 10 gal tank. I'm gonna do a complete water change first of course. But I'm wondering if I need to do any kind of disinfecting or something. I'm afraid that if I put him back in, he might get fin rot again. What's the usual procedure for reintroducing a medicated fish?

I'm still not sure what it was that got him sick. Do you think it may have been that white stringy stuff? Also, I noticed that there was some weird build up along the top frame of the aquarium (where the lid rests). It was like an orange color. Was that maybe rust? Maybe that's what did it? My aquarium was made by All-Glass.

 

[An t-iasg]

Are you using the Maracyn-2? It seems to be working? Good! You should see that the edge of the fin looks like new, whitish "skin" binding together the frayed edges. It will take awhile for the fins to get back to their original length, but you'll see that it's healing.

You may want to disinfect the tank with a very weak solution of bleach water, maybe 1 part bleach to 20 parts water. Do a search and see if you can find the correct proportion, but it's better to be weaker than stronger. Rinse very, very well, fill with water again and put a ton of declorinator in the water and let that sit for a day. The declorinator will help pull out the bleach too. Then rinse and rinse some more. If it's not too much trouble, I would get new decorations too. I don't know how much bleach the silk plants would absorb or if it would rinse out easily.

It's hard to tell what got him sick. The white stuff hopefully won't be back if you use Bio-Spira to cycle your tank. Is there any exposed metal on your tank rim to make rust? If not, the rust color probably just due to the minerals that are in your tap water, as the water evaporates.

 

[Donatron]

thanks a lot for all your help. I'm definately starting to see his frayed edges begining to bind back together. And yes, I'm useing Maracyn-2.

Anyways, I was wondering how u've positioned ur sponge filter. I want to ensure maximum filtration, while maintaining minimum current flow.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm definately starting to see his frayed edges begining to bind back together.

I have two 5-gallon betta tanks, and I have an Azoo sponge filter rated for 10 gallons in each one. They are hooked up to one airpump through a gang valve. The gang valve has 3 ports, one for each sponge filter, and the extra port is open a little to let out excess air. I've adjusted each port so that there is a steady stream of bubbles coming out of the filter, but if I look up through the tank at the top of the water, I can see the water rippling but it isn't moving fast. I'm going to put some pictures in my gallery of the gang valve setup.